Magic in Middle-earth

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Roy Tmofl

Can humans use magic without it being devilry or the craft of the enemy? I mean there are virtually no accounts of humans using magic without it being related to evil.

It seems to me that in Middle-earth the use of "magic" by those who do not possess it as part of their native ability, must then be "borrowed" from one who does have it. The perils of doing so seem readily apparent, which I think is why we don't see the Elves offering to lend any Men their Three Rings.

Originally Posted by Roy Tmofl

Now it seems to me that the ring wraiths when still human used their sorcerery for good "in their day."

How was that "sorcery" accomplished, though? Through the Nine Rings under Sauron's influence? That leads back to the borrowing. Is there any evidence they possessed such magical power before they obtained their rings?

Originally Posted by Roy Tmofl

I also remember something about the Numenorians being able to speak with animals such as birds and what not. But then again that may fall under the category of being close to nature due to their similarity to the Noldor.

I would put that into more of an affinity with the natural world, in line with that possessed by Elves (and Hobbits).

Originally Posted by Roy Tmofl

Another example is of course the mouth of Sauron but that doesn't help me support a case for good sorcerery.

I think in his case his magic was similar to the Ringwraiths': Their own beings and wills had been wholly swallowed by Sauron, to the point that they were in practice mere extensions of his own being. The Mouth seems to be a like state, having no name of his own, and being no one apart from his Master.

Originally Posted by Roy Tmofl

The only other example I ca think of is when Aragorn calmed the horse with what someone dubbed elf magic in the extended eddition of the lord of the rings. Now I realize that as probably incorrect as that was most likely either his Dunedain abilities or perhaps an ability gained from living with the elves. If it was does that mean that humans can gain the abilites of the elves?

I don't remember that in the movies, but at any rate I don't consider happenings there to be relevant to the books. Aragorn had elven-blood too though, so maybe that's a consideration.

Originally Posted by Roy Tmofl

However whie I may make the argument that humas have the potential to learn perhaps elven magic and use sorcerery for good. I think it may be possible that Tolkien had all forms of sorcrery used by humans almost always go bad for a reason.

I just don't see Tolkien's magic as being available for just anyone to learn and use. That's my opinion only, though,

[Roy Tmofl]

Ah I see. I like that idea. Magic having to be granted if is not natural. Such as the Dunedain gaining the ability to talk to animals after the valar blessed them and the elves always having this ability and the ability to work magic through song could be possibly because they were granted this as a natural ability by Eru. The drawves may have gained the ability to enchant their works as a blessing from Aule. Now that I think about it the Numenorian swords being magical could once again be from the Valar blesing them as I don't believe any other human race crafted a magic weapon of any kind.

Well anyways. Thank you very much for your help.