Of Hobbits and Boots

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galin

I actually meant: are there any references to suggest that the Hobbits in The Lord of the Rings are not wearing boots, or something, after Imladris... in other words, to set against the possibility that they might have been booted [as Bilbo in his tale] although the texts do not certainly refer to boots [as in The Hobbit I think].

Like a description of Sam looking at his toes... or something like that maybe

Right. However, since barefoot was the default state for hobbits. I would think that a presence of footwear would have been more noteworthy than the lack thereof, especially since the "authors" of LOTR were ostensibly hobbits themselves.

I do note that when Frodo and Sam were dressing as orcs at Cirith Ungol, there is no mention of either putting on any orc-boots or shoes.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by The Ring Goes South

A great sleepiness came over Frodo; he felt himself sinking fast into a warm and hazy dream. He thought a fire was heating his toes...

Now he could also imagine the fire if he had shoes on, but the following implies they were barefoot:

Originally Posted by Legolas, The Ring Goes South

And on the other side the snow suddenly grows less, while further down it is no more than a white coverlet to cool a hobbit's toes.

It's obvious that Tolkien never walked barefoot in snow though. It's incredibly cold, and if the snow is hard at all, two steps might scratch bleeding cuts on your feet.

[Inziladun]

I was thinking there was something in the books about this subject, and I found a reference. When the Three Hunters were following the Uruk-hai, hoping to rescue Merry and Pippin, Aragorn spies hobbit prints.

[Aragorn] ran quickly to the right, away from the main trail; for he had seen footprints that went that way, branching off from the others, the marks of small, unshod, feet.

TTT The Riders of Rohan

So, unless the Orcs had some use of their own for hobbit-sized boots, I think we can say that those in the Fellowship were barefoot.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It's obvious that Tolkien never walked barefoot in snow though. It's incredibly cold, and if the snow is hard at all, two steps might scratch bleeding cuts on your feet.

I know! Those "natural, leathery soles" must be more like Pirelli radials.

[Aganzir]

Oh yes that too!

Originally Posted by Inziladun

So, unless the Orcs had some use of their own for hobbit-sized boots, I think we can say that those in the Fellowship were barefoot.

Perhaps hobbit feet are like animal feet, the soles being almost like pads and the hair covering the rest of it so thickly they don't feel the cold.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I do note that when Frodo and Sam were dressing as orcs at Cirith Ungol, there is no mention of either putting on any orc-boots or shoes.

Actually, while nothing is said, that point seems the most likey to assume that they do put on footwear for the simple reason orcs do and they are trying to pass for orcs as much as possible. They are already running a risk of being recognized due to having the wrong sort of faces and not exactly the right kind of build; being barefoot when they should be shod would draw addional attention (both from patrols who might get suspicios about why two individuals were running around Gorgoroth barefoot, and from random orcs who might see them as two recently robbed orcs and either try to come and see if they can help (assuming that some orcs have a cerain amount of camaradarie amongst each other, enough to help a fellow soldier in need when convenient) or more likely to see whats left to take from an easy mark.)

And yes it is said that Stoors will wear shoes. However this is noted as odd for a hobbit, and there is a lot of implication that they picked up the habit from living with Men so much (just like the fact some can frow facial hair may indicate the stoors had some Mannish blood in thier population.)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Actually, while nothing is said, that point seems the most likey to assume that they do put on footwear for the simple reason orcs do and they are trying to pass for orcs as much as possible. They are already running a risk of being recognized due to having the wrong sort of faces and not exactly the right kind of build; being barefoot when they should be shod would draw addional attention (both from patrols who might get suspicios about why two individuals were running around Gorgoroth barefoot, and from random orcs who might see them as two recently robbed orcs and either try to come and see if they can help (assuming that some orcs have a cerain amount of camaradarie amongst each other, enough to help a fellow soldier in need when convenient) or more likely to see whats left to take from an easy mark.)

In that case, what would be the likelihood of Frodo and Sam coming across shoes or boots small enough to fit them? Orcs were generally smaller than Men, but not hobbit-sized. And outsized footwear is much more difficult to deal with than cloaks or tunics.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

In that case, what would be the likelihood of Frodo and Sam coming across shoes or boots small enough to fit them? Orcs were generally smaller than Men, but not hobbit-sized. And outsized footwear is much more difficult to deal with than cloaks or tunics.

A valid point. I guess I've always sort of assumed (probably from all the cartoons) that hobbits had big feet for thier stature. If it was mannish footwear I could say they could cinch them in (I've always assumed that, as ME is roughly medieval level in weapons tech, they're more or less medival in clothing tech, which means most "shoes" and boots are really more like leather socks, with buskin like footwear also pretty common (which would simply require tieing the thongs tighter). But the hobnails mentioned in the Rohan chapter lead me to think orc shoes are probably pretty hard soled, similar to the standard Roman soldiers sandal (though possibly with a boot top, since I doubt orcs would leave thier toes exposed.) and those are fixed fit.

[Galadriel55]

But there could be different orc boots. There could be some leather underneath and metal on the outside, so they could take out the leather. And it was quite dark - even their faces weren't recognized - no one really bothered looking at their feet. Plus, they had shields to cover those when they sat, and later no one really inspected them...

[Alfirin]

At this point, I think you are getting the events of the story (what actually happend) confused with Frodo and Sam's presumed stratagy (what they thought would likey happen).UIt's not like Frodo and Sam were planning to join up with the orc army, that was just bad luck. The disguises were primarily there for two reasons, so that Frodo would not be walking around Mordor stark naked (rememeber all of his own clothes were either in the packet Shagrat was currently carrying to Barad-Dur or destroyed) and in the hope that it would disguise them from long distance viewers (the eye,Nazgul on fell beasts,and orcs on patrol) It is almost certain Frodo and Sam never planned for thier disguises to hold up to close scutiny; they knew that would be all but impossible. when it did happen, they were just very, very lucky it was when it was dark, it could have just as easily happened in broad daylight at which point they probably would have been sunk. While I still maintain that orcs noticing they were barefoot might have given them away, that was a lesser risk to orcs noticing their barefoot tracks. The former would likey only happen if they let orcs get really really close (which they wouldn't voluntarily); the latter could easily lead to a curios orc patrol actually tracking them.
Though actually, I realize the argument is predicated on two points which are less than certain. One is that the hobbits would leave tracks; given how dry and stony much of Mordor is a lot of it is probably land where one could travel without leaving identifiable footprints. The second is that being barefoot would elicit any notice in the first place. As you point out, the orcs might have several sorts of footwear, so by extension, how do we know wearing footwear at all is a universal orcish trait. we know some orcs wear shoes becuse they find one in Rohan; but for all we know that's a "some orcs" thing "not an "all orcs" thing. Maybe I'm wrong and there are barefoot orcs wandering around too (maybe the scout forces, who would need a little extra agility and stealth that clomping around in iron soled footwear wouldn't provide. Or the sappers, who might mostly travel on the carts and not need high durability marching gear.)

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Right. However, since barefoot was the default state for hobbits. I would think that a presence of footwear would have been more noteworthy than the lack thereof, especially since the "authors" of LOTR were ostensibly hobbits themselves.

I agree. I was only wondering in consideration of the example of The Hobbit, Bilbo's tale, where he doesn't seem to mention boots in the text (but had them according to Tolkien) -- but still, I would lean to default state, even so.

Anyway, nice find on the citation [Aragorn and so on]; exactly what I was thinking of.


I do think some orcs were at least close to Hobbit size in any event, as a side point.