Hey dol! Merry dol! Get lost Tom!!! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 06-03-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I seem to remember that one of these hobbits wished Bombadil was there with them somewhere in/near Mordor (or at least on the East side of Anduin), but I can't recall the exact location nor find the line. Dos anyone know what I'm talking about or am I just imagining it?

Indeed, you are correct, G55. In "Shelob's Lair" Sam, when touching the hilt of his sword and remembering the darkness of the barrow, says, "I wish old Tom was near us now!" It's a fascinating little passage because that wish for Tom's aid seques into a memory of Galadriel's gift of light.

Zigûr · 06-05-2013, 05:39 AM

I think the fact that Tom wouldn't work in a film is one of the stronger points against the suitability of The Lord of the Rings for film adaptation. It's an important episode for Merry's acquisition of the Dagger of Westernesse if nothing else, and I think it's thematically useful in terms of the contrast of the Old Forest to Treebeard and the Ents; it adds a layer of ambiguity which might otherwise be absent and is often missed, questioning the rather traditional "nature good" reading of the text. The scene in the barrow is also very striking, and the barrow-wight's song, with its altogether apocalyptic imagery of Sauron (or Morgoth?) lifting his hand "over dead sea and withered land" is something which has always stuck with me. I think the frantic, confusing accident on the Downs could work very well in the oft-suggested television series adaptation.

Professor Tolkien complains in Letter 175 that the 1955 radio adaptation portrayed Old Man Willow as "an ally of Mordor (!!)", further asking "Can people imagine things hostile to men and hobbits who prey on them without being in league with the Devil!" I think Tom and Goldberry, Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights are just one of the many overlooked complexities of the story, suggesting that there were good and evil forces which could still be parochial, and that existed outside of any central spiritual crisis (although I realise that the wights, derived from Angmar, were ultimately the Dark Lord's servants). The same is true of Shelob as well, perhaps, but in my opinion she is another case of characterisation and theme virtually impossible to convey visually; it will inevitably be less "last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world" and more "the bit where Sam fights a giant spider". And curse the films for causing me to unconsciously reach for my copy of "The Return of the King" rather than "The Two Towers" just then to find the relevant quotations!

I can't imagine how it could be conveyed visually, for instance, that Merry's blade was able to harm the Lord of the Nazgûl due to its origin in the wars against Angmar without some clunky exposition by Aragorn or Gandalf. The Lord of the Rings is one of those stories that really demands the ability to turn the page back and re-read, as well as steady narration; Tom and the scenes around him embody that quality. It perhaps shares more in common with certain Modernist texts in that regard (equally unfilmable despite valiant attempts, I would suppose) than I suspect many would imagine.

06-05-2013, 05:39 AM	#2
Zigûr Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 785	I think the fact that Tom wouldn't work in a film is one of the stronger points against the suitability of The Lord of the Rings for film adaptation. It's an important episode for Merry's acquisition of the Dagger of Westernesse if nothing else, and I think it's thematically useful in terms of the contrast of the Old Forest to Treebeard and the Ents; it adds a layer of ambiguity which might otherwise be absent and is often missed, questioning the rather traditional "nature good" reading of the text. The scene in the barrow is also very striking, and the barrow-wight's song, with its altogether apocalyptic imagery of Sauron (or Morgoth?) lifting his hand "over dead sea and withered land" is something which has always stuck with me. I think the frantic, confusing accident on the Downs could work very well in the oft-suggested television series adaptation. Professor Tolkien complains in Letter 175 that the 1955 radio adaptation portrayed Old Man Willow as "an ally of Mordor (!!)", further asking "Can people imagine things hostile to men and hobbits who prey on them without being in league with the Devil!" I think Tom and Goldberry, Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights are just one of the many overlooked complexities of the story, suggesting that there were good and evil forces which could still be parochial, and that existed outside of any central spiritual crisis (although I realise that the wights, derived from Angmar, were ultimately the Dark Lord's servants). The same is true of Shelob as well, perhaps, but in my opinion she is another case of characterisation and theme virtually impossible to convey visually; it will inevitably be less "last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world" and more "the bit where Sam fights a giant spider". And curse the films for causing me to unconsciously reach for my copy of "The Return of the King" rather than "The Two Towers" just then to find the relevant quotations! I can't imagine how it could be conveyed visually, for instance, that Merry's blade was able to harm the Lord of the Nazgûl due to its origin in the wars against Angmar without some clunky exposition by Aragorn or Gandalf. The Lord of the Rings is one of those stories that really demands the ability to turn the page back and re-read, as well as steady narration; Tom and the scenes around him embody that quality. It perhaps shares more in common with certain Modernist texts in that regard (equally unfilmable despite valiant attempts, I would suppose) than I suspect many would imagine. __________________ "Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer.