The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2013, 09:27 AM   #1
Belegorn
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annūn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
Belegorn has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigūr View Post
So that part of him which was "High" was capable of desiring the Ring and recognising its power, but as a "Middle Man" he lacked the wisdom and spiritual stature to perceive its evil, reject it and overcome temptation until the bitter end.
Isildur was not a Middle Man by a long shot and we are all familiar with his story of how he decided to keep the Ring against other counsel [Sil, p. 366]. Also the Numenoreans were High Men all and Sauron corrupted most of the island. They were in the habit of performing human sacrifices, tending to take the Faithful as those sacrifices, and they were against the Valar and the Elves who were always for them.

Boromir may not have been able to perceive its evil, but that would only make him less responsible than a High Man who would, like him, want the Ring, like his father. I'm just saying even the High Men could not all reject it and overcome its temptation and the only two that I know of who did were Faramir and Aragorn. Perhaps Elendil would have destroyed it had he lived, but I'm not sure. However, maybe temperament has a role to play in this as Boromir and Isildur seemed to have a fiery temperament and perhaps Elendil like Aragorn and Faramir would have rejected it.
__________________
"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche
Belegorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 10:13 AM   #2
Zigūr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigūr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigūr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigūr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belegorn View Post
Boromir may not have been able to perceive its evil, but that would only make him less responsible than a High Man who would, like him, want the Ring, like his father. I'm just saying even the High Men could not all reject it and overcome its temptation and the only two that I know of who did were Faramir and Aragorn. Perhaps Elendil would have destroyed it had he lived, but I'm not sure. However, maybe temperament has a role to play in this as Boromir and Isildur seemed to have a fiery temperament and perhaps Elendil like Aragorn and Faramir would have rejected it.
I don't mean to suggest that Boromir's stature is necessarily responsible, only that it might have limited his understanding. It's worth remembering that Boromir desired the Ring for its power. Isildur's rationale for keeping the Ring was as a weregild for the loss of his father and brother, just as Bilbo argued that he kept it because Gollum would have killed him otherwise. I'm not saying that their corruption was different, but Boromir, unlike people previously interested in the Ring, actively wanted to use it for its "true" purpose, the manufacture and maintenance of Power. This was a very "Middle" attitude to take: as Faramir suggests, they esteemed mastery and martial prowess above other skills, and the Ring was the ultimate weapon in that regard. I personally don't think it's so much a matter of wanting to keep the Ring as it is wanting to use it, and use it for its primary purpose (not just to become invisible and such). The Ringbearers each kept the Ring for a variety of reasons (of diverse validity) but Boromir wished to actually wield it, even though he had been told repeatedly and with emphasis that doing so would only achieve further ruin.
His circumstances were different to Isildur, of course, but Men like Aragorn and Faramir refused to use it. Faramir said "I do not wish for such triumphs." He was in the same situation as his brother, but of greater wisdom and stature.
In this way I don't think that Elendil, or Aragorn, or Faramir, or anyone else could have destroyed the Ring, because I'm fairly sure no one could have destroyed it voluntarily, but perhaps a High Man might at least be less inclined to use it even if they felt compelled (like anyone else) to keep it.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigūr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 10:52 AM   #3
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigūr View Post
I don't mean to suggest that Boromir's stature is necessarily responsible, only that it might have limited his understanding. It's worth remembering that Boromir desired the Ring for its power. Isildur's rationale for keeping the Ring was as a weregild for the loss of his father and brother, just as Bilbo argued that he kept it because Gollum would have killed him otherwise.
To me, that's merely an illustration of the way in which the Ring attacks the reason and restraint of those who come in contact with it: it calls to the individual, promising power to help them achieve their goals, however good they may seem (or actually be) to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigūr View Post
In this way I don't think that Elendil, or Aragorn, or Faramir, or anyone else could have destroyed the Ring, because I'm fairly sure no one could have destroyed it voluntarily, but perhaps a High Man might at least be less inclined to use it even if they felt compelled (like anyone else) to keep it.
Since the three you name all declined the Ring, I think it clear they didn't trust themselves with it, which is pretty telling.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:53 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.