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Old 03-05-2013, 03:52 AM   #6
Belegorn
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
Belegorn has just left Hobbiton.
I would think they did fight in physical forms even though they could "work many things with thought rather than hands" [Sil, pp. 112] I'd think they would fight in the very forms they tended to take as mentioned on pages 19-23 of the Silmarillion. I say they tended to take a particular forms, but they did at times take others, "the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are NOT AT ALL TIMES like to the shapes of the kings and queens of the Children of Iluvatar; for at times they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in forms of majesty and dread" [11-12].

Take Melkor who, "often walked abroad, in MANY SHAPES of power and fear" [p. 34] We are told of Manwe and of Melkor respectively, "His raiment is blue, and blue is the fire of his eyes, and his sceptre is of sapphire, which the Noldor wrought for him" [35-36] and his brother, "was dark and terrible. And he descended upon Arda in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has its head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with smoke and fire; and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with deadly cold." [12]

In the 2nd overthrow of Morgoth Utumno was a physical fortress and I would think that being so they would have physical form since that's where his servants fled when defeated initially. However, when building the defences of Valinor the Powers used physical defenses there as well and were not necessarily in physical form in defence of that place. Yet since the battle of Melkor and Tulkas is clearly one of physical nature ["wrestled with him, and cast him upon his face"] I'd assume that generally the battle was fought with physical bodies and Melkor seemed to be led away physically with the "chain Angainor that Aule had wrought" [pp. 51-52].

I think in the first war it may have been a combination of them being clothed and not so. This may have been the case in the 2nd as well. If they did fight in any form it would probably be the ones they normally wore. However, we do know that Melkor had exceedingly great power above his peers for his host "contended with Manwe and all the Valar, and through long years in Arda held dominion over most of the lands of the Earth [p. 26] He was one Vala on his side, no other, and it is said of the highest Valar alone, "Nine were of chief power and reverence... in majesty they were peers, surpassing beyond compare all others, whether of the Valar and Maiar, or of any other order that Illuvatar has sent into Ea." [p. 23] Melkor was among these 9 so he was not only fighting against 8 Valar who could not be matched by any other Vala or creature, none of his servants could contend with them, but he also fought with the lesser Valar and all those other Maiar some of whom were "well nigh as great as" [p. 12] the Valar. What does confound me is how Tulkas who is not even counted as among the highest of the Valar beat Melkor. In his final overthrow when much of his power was spent and he bacame bound to the earth I do not even think a Valar was needed to chain him up! Still before that, I'm not sure how Tulkas beat him.

To your question again the Valar wore the forms that were like that of the COI they beheld in the vision, but in a grander way, even though those forms hid their powers.
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