Cryptic Clues - Page 24 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 02-16-2013, 04:58 AM

Tol Morwen? Not convinced but the papers bit is hard and there is almost a n anagram of news in there.

Ardent · 02-16-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Green land exiled lady in papers after messed up signal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Tol Morwen? Not convinced but the papers bit is hard and there is almost a n anagram of news in there.

I thought signal could be an anagram of lingas, as in Eorlingas. Eowyn was kind of exiled when she became the Lady of Ithilien, but again the papers bit doesn't fit.

Green land could be a garden, and Elanor Gardener (an almost anagram) was kind of exiled to Undertowers after the palantir of the Havens and the last of the Fellowship sailed West. She inherited the Book of Westmarch from Sam which could account for the papers, but it seems a stretch to interpret the palantir as a "messed up signal". Perhaps it was in the sense that it looked to the West, providing communication with a land now lost.

Galadriel55 · 02-16-2013, 09:14 AM

Should I tell you or should I not? I think I should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I keep thinking of Ossiriand which doesn't work...

But it does.

Can you now just give the reason?

Mithalwen · 02-16-2013, 09:58 AM

Ah well I suppose Rian could be an exiled lady, in ID ie papers in the sense of documents (as I told lovely Heren Istarion once the motto of the French republuc is Liberte Egality Vos Papiers ) and the signal is SOS rearranged into Oss... bravo.

Galadriel55 · 02-16-2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Ah well I suppose Rian could be an exiled lady, in ID ie papers in the sense of documents (as I told lovely Heren Istarion once the motto of the French republuc is Liberte Egality Vos Papiers ) and the signal is SOS rearranged into Oss... bravo.

That's right on. The thread is yours.

Mithalwen · 02-17-2013, 05:04 AM

So much easier when you know the answer.

Lets try...

Kick up a fuss but take direction to find a range.

Pervinca Took · 02-19-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

So much easier when you know the answer.

Lets try...

Kick up a fuss but take direction to find a range.

I can't find a mountain range in any Middle-earth language that works.

It can't possibly be something to do with ARAGORN, can it? As in Ranger, not range? "Rag" is something you lose if you're cross/kicking up a fuss, N is a direction, all letters of range except E are in his name?

(No, didn't think so). :embarrassed:

Galadriel55 · 02-19-2013, 08:06 PM

Pervinca, you've given me an idea. It could be drama + N, kicked up=mixedd up, to give ANDRAM, a relatively insignificant mountain range in mid-Beleriand.

Mithalwen · 02-19-2013, 10:46 PM

Yep, that is it...fraid I lacked inspiration so browsed encyclopedia of arda for somethingforgot it was so obscure, haven't read much first age stuff for a while...

Hi Pervinca, good to have new blood.

Pervinca Took · 02-20-2013, 02:20 PM

Hi Mithalwen - I love cryptic crosswords, so this is right up my street.

Can't wait for the next clue, Galadriel!

Mithalwen · 02-20-2013, 03:53 PM

Great, I enjoy them too but with sovfew the turns can come a little quickly!

Galadriel55 · 02-21-2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Yep, that is it...fraid I lacked inspiration so browsed encyclopedia of arda for somethingforgot it was so obscure, haven't read much first age stuff for a while...

It's not that it's insignificant in terms of it's size or location, just nothing really happens there. Like the Pelori Mountains. And I also go to Enc. of Arda half the time and click "random entry" until something useful shows up.

Frodo, call grizzly with hesitative sound.

Mithalwen · 02-23-2013, 08:13 AM

RINGBEARER? Ring for call grizxly bear and er for hesitation.

Pervinca Took · 02-23-2013, 08:40 AM

I had internet connectivity issues yesterday.

But fun to see a new clue, even when it's already solved.

Mithalwen · 02-23-2013, 08:56 AM

Oh bother, I held back a while in case you wanted a shot...

Galadriel55 · 02-23-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

RINGBEARER? Ring for call grizxly bear and er for hesitation.

Right on!

Mithalwen · 02-23-2013, 11:45 AM

Cheers...

Hearing organ, Irish singer ends a new day in Numenor.

Pervinca Took · 02-24-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Cheers...

Hearing organ, Irish singer ends a new day in Numenor.

Ear + Enya gives:

Eärenya: The Sea-day of the Númenóreans

Mithalwen · 02-24-2013, 10:48 AM

Indeed which made the week up to seven days...

Over to you, Pervinca

Pervinca Took · 02-24-2013, 12:38 PM

Place of breaking turmoil where an eyeless couple, we hear, begin an article on an ancient physician.

Mithalwen · 02-24-2013, 02:02 PM

Hmm intriguing, something is floating in the back of mymind. But need to ponder..

Mithalwen · 02-25-2013, 06:50 AM

I can't quite explain it all but I did history of medicine at school and there was a chap called Galen...which offersa couple of possibilities of which Parth Galen where the fellowship broke seems likeliest. Pair is a couple without I par..th starts the an article..the we hear I can't explain...

Works better than trying to turn hippocrates into helcaraxe which was my starting point!

Pervinca Took · 02-25-2013, 10:11 AM

Well done, you are quite right. I put in "we hear" because it referred to "i" which only sounds like "eye" instead of meaning the same thing or the word "eye" being an actual part of the answer. In a lot of crosswords I've done, "we hear" in the clue indicated that the element "sounded like that" but was spelled differently.

I first heard of Galen in "Medicine Through Time" - one of the units on a new "O" Level History course back in the 80's.

I had thought of just putting "place of turmoil" because I thought "breaking" was a bit of a giveaway.

But I think a lot of the fun is in fitting every bit of the clue to the answer.

Mithalwen · 02-25-2013, 10:17 AM

silly me, yes of course it does. Sounds like we did the same syllabus. I enjoyed it though I remember that the answe r to most things was purging, bloodletting and vomiting.

Pervinca Took · 02-25-2013, 10:25 AM

Not to mention the trephinned skulls! And a charming picture of an Egyptian lady vomiting at a banquet. It was a very content-heavy course. We had three very full text books to get through in one term. I loved the course, though. Other courses were the Irish Question, Country Houses and Elizabethan England.

Mithalwen · 02-25-2013, 12:10 PM

Inevitably I had to do the industrial revolution again along with communist chinacand a local study. Despite going fromone local school to another I seem to have done little else but the ir...apart from the year we had a devout yorkist.

Mithalwen · 02-26-2013, 08:08 AM

Lord whose end, in France, is also his beginning. Interim target loses pitch.

Galadriel55 · 02-26-2013, 04:20 PM

Fingolfin? Fin being French for end, and gol as goal-a.

Mithalwen · 02-27-2013, 05:16 AM

Indeed, it is all yours. Thought I woud be less obscure and maybe overdidvit!

Galadriel55 · 02-28-2013, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Indeed, it is all yours. Thought I woud be less obscure and maybe overdidvit!

I could only just think of two people who have names that both begin and end on "fin"... That helped a lot.

Ok, here's one:

Tower without one leader in Shire in goblin

Pervinca Took · 02-28-2013, 03:56 PM

Orthanc.

Orthanc is the tower; thain (Shire leader) minus 1 (I) inside the word orc (goblin).

Galadriel55 · 02-28-2013, 05:51 PM

Precisely. Over to you.

Pervinca Took · 03-01-2013, 04:02 AM

Quite tuneful before the loss of the Ulster connection, this palindromic meanie wears a hat dead-centre.

Morsul the Dark · 03-03-2013, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Quite tuneful before the loss of the Ulster connection, this palindromic meanie wears a hat dead-centre.

Palindrom that;s same forward and back that's te only thing in that clue that gives me remotely anything.

Mithalwen · 03-04-2013, 07:42 AM

With a bit of reverse engineering I think Mim is the answer to this initially daunting clue. I Eeeked when I first saw it! Thanks to Nerwen's favourite spambot we know that very few Tolkien names begin and end with the same letter let alone being a palindrome. Then wearing a hat suggests a circonflex on the middle letter. Ulster connection suggested NI for northern Ireland. Wrapping Mim around NI gives the musical term mimim.

Pervinca Took · 03-04-2013, 10:08 AM

Exactly! I thought it would have been too much of a giveaway if I'd only included the last part of the clue. I'd already indicated that the answer was a villain, and I can't think offhand of any palindromes besides Mim in Tolkien's universe (plus the hat indicates the circumflex, as you rightly said).

Minim is a palindrome too, of course.

Well done Mithalwen - over to you!

Morsul the Dark · 03-04-2013, 02:42 PM

Fantastic job that clue was waaay smarter than me

Galadriel55 · 03-04-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I can't think offhand of any palindromes besides Mim in Tolkien's universe

Bob. But I think that's it.

Anyways, great job Mith! That clue was certainly daunting, but you solved all the parts! Even with the help of dear old Lucy (who is just getting way too popular for a spambot

).

Mithalwen · 03-06-2013, 10:08 AM

I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions.

But this isn't going to be so clever I fear.

Star doesn't get a thank you initially but gains land in dissarray for an epesse.

Pervinca Took · 03-06-2013, 03:58 PM

It looks darned clever to me! I tried to make my clues hard because the standard I found here was so high. (I was completely at sea on the Ossiriand and Amdran (is that right?) clues).

I also have a Daily Mail book of cryptic crosswords by my bed that I am gradually getting better at - but I still have to look up the answers in the back quite a lot!

I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions.

I wonder if that was why I didn't get the "letters" thing in Galadriel's Ossiriand - or is that more to do with being used within a particular profession?

P.S. No, I can't solve this clue. Not yet, anyway.

P.P.S. Sam would probably throw apples at me for forgetting Bob.

02-16-2013, 04:58 AM	#921
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Tol Morwen? Not convinced but the papers bit is hard and there is almost a n anagram of news in there. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-16-2013, 09:58 AM	#924
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Ah well I suppose Rian could be an exiled lady, in ID ie papers in the sense of documents (as I told lovely Heren Istarion once the motto of the French republuc is Liberte Egality Vos Papiers ) and the signal is SOS rearranged into Oss... bravo. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-17-2013, 05:04 AM	#926
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	So much easier when you know the answer. Lets try... Kick up a fuss but take direction to find a range. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-19-2013, 08:06 PM	#928
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	Pervinca, you've given me an idea. It could be drama + N, kicked up=mixedd up, to give ANDRAM, a relatively insignificant mountain range in mid-Beleriand. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

02-19-2013, 10:46 PM	#929
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Yep, that is it...fraid I lacked inspiration so browsed encyclopedia of arda for somethingforgot it was so obscure, haven't read much first age stuff for a while... Hi Pervinca, good to have new blood. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-20-2013, 02:20 PM	#930
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Hi Mithalwen - I love cryptic crosswords, so this is right up my street. Can't wait for the next clue, Galadriel! __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

02-20-2013, 03:53 PM	#931
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Great, I enjoy them too but with sovfew the turns can come a little quickly! __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-23-2013, 08:13 AM	#933
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	RINGBEARER? Ring for call grizxly bear and er for hesitation. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-23-2013, 08:40 AM	#934
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	I had internet connectivity issues yesterday. But fun to see a new clue, even when it's already solved. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 02-24-2013 at 01:25 PM.

02-23-2013, 08:56 AM	#935
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Oh bother, I held back a while in case you wanted a shot... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-23-2013, 11:45 AM	#937
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Cheers... Hearing organ, Irish singer ends a new day in Numenor. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-24-2013, 10:48 AM	#939
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Indeed which made the week up to seven days... Over to you, Pervinca __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-24-2013, 12:38 PM	#940
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Place of breaking turmoil where an eyeless couple, we hear, begin an article on an ancient physician. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

02-24-2013, 02:02 PM	#941
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Hmm intriguing, something is floating in the back of mymind. But need to ponder.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-25-2013, 06:50 AM	#942
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I can't quite explain it all but I did history of medicine at school and there was a chap called Galen...which offersa couple of possibilities of which Parth Galen where the fellowship broke seems likeliest. Pair is a couple without I par..th starts the an article..the we hear I can't explain... Works better than trying to turn hippocrates into helcaraxe which was my starting point! __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-25-2013, 10:11 AM	#943
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Well done, you are quite right. I put in "we hear" because it referred to "i" which only sounds like "eye" instead of meaning the same thing or the word "eye" being an actual part of the answer. In a lot of crosswords I've done, "we hear" in the clue indicated that the element "sounded like that" but was spelled differently. I first heard of Galen in "Medicine Through Time" - one of the units on a new "O" Level History course back in the 80's. I had thought of just putting "place of turmoil" because I thought "breaking" was a bit of a giveaway. But I think a lot of the fun is in fitting every bit of the clue to the answer. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

02-25-2013, 10:17 AM	#944
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	silly me, yes of course it does. Sounds like we did the same syllabus. I enjoyed it though I remember that the answe r to most things was purging, bloodletting and vomiting. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-25-2013, 10:25 AM	#945
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Not to mention the trephinned skulls! And a charming picture of an Egyptian lady vomiting at a banquet. It was a very content-heavy course. We had three very full text books to get through in one term. I loved the course, though. Other courses were the Irish Question, Country Houses and Elizabethan England. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

02-25-2013, 12:10 PM	#946
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Inevitably I had to do the industrial revolution again along with communist chinacand a local study. Despite going fromone local school to another I seem to have done little else but the ir...apart from the year we had a devout yorkist. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-26-2013, 08:08 AM	#947
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Lord whose end, in France, is also his beginning. Interim target loses pitch. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-26-2013, 04:20 PM	#948
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	Fingolfin? Fin being French for end, and gol as goal-a. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

02-27-2013, 05:16 AM	#949
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Indeed, it is all yours. Thought I woud be less obscure and maybe overdidvit! __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-28-2013, 03:56 PM	#951
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Orthanc. Orthanc is the tower; thain (Shire leader) minus 1 (I) inside the word orc (goblin). __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

02-28-2013, 05:51 PM	#952
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,491	Precisely. Over to you. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 02-28-2013 at 06:52 PM.

03-01-2013, 04:02 AM	#953
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Quite tuneful before the loss of the Ulster connection, this palindromic meanie wears a hat dead-centre. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

03-04-2013, 07:42 AM	#955
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	With a bit of reverse engineering I think Mim is the answer to this initially daunting clue. I Eeeked when I first saw it! Thanks to Nerwen's favourite spambot we know that very few Tolkien names begin and end with the same letter let alone being a palindrome. Then wearing a hat suggests a circonflex on the middle letter. Ulster connection suggested NI for northern Ireland. Wrapping Mim around NI gives the musical term mimim. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-04-2013, 10:08 AM	#956
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Exactly! I thought it would have been too much of a giveaway if I'd only included the last part of the clue. I'd already indicated that the answer was a villain, and I can't think offhand of any palindromes besides Mim in Tolkien's universe (plus the hat indicates the circumflex, as you rightly said). Minim is a palindrome too, of course. Well done Mithalwen - over to you! __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-04-2013 at 01:47 PM.

03-04-2013, 02:42 PM	#957
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Fantastic job that clue was waaay smarter than me __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

03-06-2013, 10:08 AM	#959
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions. But this isn't going to be so clever I fear. Star doesn't get a thank you initially but gains land in dissarray for an epesse. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 03-06-2013 at 10:37 AM.

03-06-2013, 03:58 PM	#960
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	It looks darned clever to me! I tried to make my clues hard because the standard I found here was so high. (I was completely at sea on the Ossiriand and Amdran (is that right?) clues). I also have a Daily Mail book of cryptic crosswords by my bed that I am gradually getting better at - but I still have to look up the answers in the back quite a lot! I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions. I wonder if that was why I didn't get the "letters" thing in Galadriel's Ossiriand - or is that more to do with being used within a particular profession? P.S. No, I can't solve this clue. Not yet, anyway. P.P.S. Sam would probably throw apples at me for forgetting Bob. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-07-2013 at 01:03 PM.