The History of Galadriel and Celeborn

[Galin]

Then how about Ered Wethrin WCH

The problem there is, Nargothrond hadn't even been begun yet when Galadriel crossed these mountains, much less fallen... but I wonder if the fall of Gondolin and Nargothrond might simply be used as a historic marker, so to speak... somewhat like saying 'before the Fall of Rome' generally equals 'a long time ago'...

... or ahem, something.

It is in fact a 'ghost' sentence, like Gimli's unused axe; it's not something to be reconciled or papered over, it's just an artifact of a work of imaginative fiction. It's not like there's an underlying reality, you know.

I do not understand this last sentence

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, I'd say that "days of dawn" is a a better approx of "long, long time ago"

[Galin]

Well no doubt there are better ways to say this... but here of course I am trying to reinterpret a statement so that it might allow both it and RGEO to fit (well enough if not perfectly) into the history of Celeborn and Galadriel, and so I can't change the wording.

So so far I'm sticking with the Ered Wethrin

I think it's a bit odd to have Galadriel say this if she means she went to Lindorinand without Celeborn and returned... I mean why note this crossing if being together is so much a part of the meaning?

In other words, as a detail of history it works well enough, but not so much with respect to the context of Galadriel's statement. My scenario is a bit off too due to the timing of the 'fall', as I say, but at least it puts Galadriel with Celeborn together after this crossing, and doesn't seem to step on what I feel is a main thrust of the statement.

[gondowe]

Anyway, be a "ghost" sentence, Tolkien did not repare in it in the revision of TLOTR post the new conception about Galadriel, or whatever be, if we want to make a reconstruction of his History (and of Celeborn) coherent with the whole legendarium, this sentence (and that in TRGEO), in my opinion, must be readed as a truth. And then act in consecuence.

Greetings

[William Cloud Hicklin]

if we want to make a reconstruction of his History (and of Celeborn) coherent with the whole legendarium

Why?

Anyway, be a "ghost" sentence, Tolkien did not repare in it in the revision of TLOTR

Tolkien while brilliant was not infallible; the LR is littered with uncorrected lines he overlooked during revision- that's what a 'ghost' is, as in the 'ghost' of an earlier draft. Just for two examples, Aragorn's "sleep without fear" statement in Caras Galadon, and Pippin seeing the moon rising rather than setting on the night of the war-beacons.

[Galin]

Hmm, because we want to?

And Tolkien, when he was aware of an error in already published text, sometimes tried to work with it in some internal way. Not always, but sometimes he would, in my opinon to help with the inner consistency of the subcreated world.

In this case we all seem to agree that Tolkien just forgot this line, so why not try to make it work (I say).

No Tolkien wasn't perfect, but at times he played this 'game' himself, no?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Galin

Hmm, because we want to?

And Tolkien, when he was aware of an error in already published text, sometimes tried to work with it in some internal way. Not always, but sometimes he would, in my opinon to help with the inner consistency of the subcreated world.

In this case we all seem to agree that Tolkien just forgot this line, so why not try to make it work (I say).

No Tolkien wasn't perfect, but at times he played this 'game' himself, no?

Well, Tolkien the inveterate Patience-player would often play the 'game'- most especially since as a philologist and medievalist he was as aware as any man how things in the real world grow organically and not according to regular, artificial 'patterns;' it's interesting in this light not only his love of trees in all their individuality, but how often in his writing even those RW epitomes of Vitruvian regularity, pillars and columns, are carved in the shapes of trees.

So if there was a bump which he perceived as being an organic 'bud' he would often leave it unpruned and see how it grew- but one can hardly say that of things like Eomer's "three nights ago;" either he got word of the Orc-raid three nights or four nights prior, it can't have been both.

[gondowe]

Why?

Because I want to do it and I know some people also want to do. But of course, it`s a personal game, for personal reading.

In the mare-magnum of versions of this history I think is fascinating to try to put order in them.

Tolkien while brilliant was not infallible; the LR is littered with uncorrected lines he overlooked during revision- that's what a 'ghost' is, as in the 'ghost' of an earlier draft. Just for two examples, Aragorn's "sleep without fear" statement in Caras Galadon, and Pippin seeing the moon rising rather than setting on the night of the war-beacons.

These and those in the post above are other kind of ghost sentences, that one could be minimised thanks to the legendarium "incomplete", and according with my/our principles exposed above in this post.

Greetings