Male and Female Orcs

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, we know that Bolg is the son of Azog. Isn't that proof enough that orcs are born?

More than that, the fact that Bolg wants to avenge his father indicates that Orcs are not wholly evil and capable of affection for their families.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Gothbogg the Ripper

More than that, the fact that Bolg wants to avenge his father indicates that Orcs are not wholly evil and capable of affection for their families.

Or, at least, that the have some sort of loyalty to clan. Bolgs desire to avenge doesn't have to mean he actually cared for his father (it could just be that having a orc slain by a dwarf brought shame on the family/clan, and avenging it is a way to regain honor and status among orcdom. In orther words, not caring for Azog the person (orc) but for Azog the king. But that's still something

[Estelyn Telcontar]

"Hello. My name is Bolg. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Or, at least, that the have some sort of loyalty to clan. Bolgs desire to avenge doesn't have to mean he actually cared for his father (it could just be that having a orc slain by a dwarf brought shame on the family/clan, and avenging it is a way to regain honor and status among orcdom. In orther words, not caring for Azog the person (orc) but for Azog the king. But that's still something

I agree. For that matter, I think the Orcs just used any excuse for killing. Didn't the "Northerners" running with Saruman's Uruk-hai say something along the lines of killing to "avenge their folk"? And in that case the Orc-slaying had not been done by Dwarves.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I agree. For that matter, I think the Orcs just used any excuse for killing. Didn't the "Northerners" running with Saruman's Uruk-hai say something along the lines of killing to "avenge their folk"? And in that case the Orc-slaying had not been done by Dwarves.

Actually, since it is pretty clear that at least Uruk-hai like to EAT people, those excuses could even simply include "I'm hungry" or even (if Gothbog is right and orcs actually DO care about each other) "I'm just trying to put food on the table for my family." (that actually sounds really creepy, now that I've said it)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Actually, since it is pretty clear that at least Uruk-hai like to EAT people, those excuses could even simply include "I'm hungry" or even (if Gothbog is right and orcs actually DO care about each other) "I'm just trying to put food on the table for my family." (that actually sounds really creepy, now that I've said it)

What I've always found odd about the Orcish cannibalism is that they use it both as an insult and as a threat. Sounds like Orwellian doublespeak to me. Maybe Sauron was really the Big Brother of Mordor.

[Zigûr]

Was Bolg actually trying to avenge the death of his father? What little is said of him seems to suggest to me that he was mainly interested in seizing the dragon-gold. Then again it also seems that he was at least somewhat motivated to avenge the death of the Great Goblin, which might have a similar connotation: "Ever since the fall of the Great Goblin of the Misty Mountains the hatred of their race for the dwarves had been rekindled to fury," (The Hobbit) so I suppose they did have a sense of loyalty or camaraderie, albeit a rather negative one based on shared hatred for other people and survival instincts. I think this is to an extent evident with the conversation between Shagrat and Gorbag in The Lord of the Rings as well. I don't think Orcs were wholly evil, although even the vestiges of positivity in them mostly manifested in evil ways.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Actually, since it is pretty clear that at least Uruk-hai like to EAT people, those excuses could even simply include "I'm hungry" or even (if Gothbog is right and orcs actually DO care about each other) "I'm just trying to put food on the table for my family." (that actually sounds really creepy, now that I've said it)

Well, they sure seem to be loyal enough to their masters - until they start caring too much about themselves, at least, but there's still some thread of loyalty. And they seemed to want to uphold the reputation of their own clan.