If you were an elf, would you go to the Grey Havens or stay in Middle-earth... - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-13-2003, 11:10 PM

Erm, the Grey Havens is in Middle-earth. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

dubleu · 12-14-2003, 12:20 AM

Techniquely i suppose this is true however it is a "seperate land" and is their fore usually spoken of seperately

Everdawn · 12-14-2003, 01:09 AM

As 'separate' as The Shire perhaps? I think they speak of it as a place in Middle Earth

I would go to the Grey Havens to get to Valinori think it would be the most interesting place to live.

dubleu · 12-14-2003, 03:23 PM

When i say seperate i mean they take a boat tere [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-14-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

When i say seperate i mean they take a boat tere

No, they take a boat from there.

Grey Havens is a translation of the Sindarin name Mithlond, the Elven harbour and city that lay on the Mouth of the river Lhun, ie in Middle-earth. Cirdan the Shipwright was Lord of the Havens, and it was from here that Elves departing Middle-earth sailed west to Aman, the Undying Lands.

I trust that clears up this issue. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:59 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

Shenaran · 12-17-2003, 08:49 PM

Who ever said it is right Gray Havens is in Middle Earth....I sure they meant leave Middle Earth via Gray Havens...

I personally would stay for a while.

lord_of_rohan2003 · 12-18-2003, 12:05 PM

If I were a elf I would go after a 1000 year tour of the regular lands..but other then that I would just stay.Theres always the Shire to visit,Rohan,Gpndor and othe cool plases to see and live in.

Iris Alantiel · 12-19-2003, 01:21 PM

I think it would ultimately depend on the circumstances - if I was Arwen or Luthien, I'd have done exactly what they did, sure. But if it was just up to me and not based on any other people's actions or circumstances, I think I would probably be on the ship to Valinor, because I would want to take the opportunity to see something new. (This of course assumes that I've already been in ME for a couple of thousand years and am pretty familiar with it.) But I think a part of my heart would always mourn and be sad for the beauty that I've left behind.

Dragon Elf odin Ragnorock · 12-22-2003, 06:37 PM

I would say I would want to go to the gray Hevens. I would love to spend eternety in paradice insted of a living heck

rutslegolas · 01-31-2004, 07:02 AM

if i were am elf from thranduil i would not leave middle earth

but just reside in the realm of king aragorn till the end of his days and then perhaps go to the grey heavens

Eorl of Rohan · 01-31-2004, 07:26 AM

Well... Sooner or later, all elves have to leave middle earth. There is no choice. The fourth age is the age of Men, and elves have no place - they must either go to Valinor or fade away and die - who would then go to the Halls of MAndos and then go to Valinor later on.

Galadriel · 11-09-2010, 11:48 PM

I'd probably tour Middle-earth for as long as Galadriel (from the time the Noldor returned), and then go to Valinor

Galadriel55 · 11-10-2010, 06:05 PM

I would probably do the same as Legolas - stay for a while, until it's worth it. I feel sorry for people like Gimli.

xMellrynxMaidenx · 11-10-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I'd probably tour Middle-earth for as long as Galadriel (from the time the Noldor returned), and then go to Valinor

Hear, hear!

I would explore it until I have satisfied my curiosity, then I would sail to Valinor. But it's as someone stated previously, either way, all elves go to Valinor sooner or later. If not by sailing, they are reincarnated from the Halls of Mandos.

Elmo · 11-11-2010, 04:23 AM

If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. I think that's mentioned in Morgoth's Ring. It seems pretty unfair that these Elves are denied the chanced to stretch their legs in Valinor cause of something that happened thousands and thousands of years ago. I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls.

alatar · 11-11-2010, 10:19 AM

Middle Earth - that's where all the fun is. Sure, the elves *did stuff* in Ages past when in Valinor, but that just led to problems, and so surely Manwe has put a stop to all creativity now.

And I know that the 'left behind' elves of Middle Earth suffer bouts of melancholy, but with all of the new things that appear in Middle Earth (hobbits, humans, etc), I think that I could stave off the blues for a good while.

Morthoron · 11-11-2010, 11:42 AM

Middle-earth. Valinor is like an Elvish retirement community. Who wants to play shuffleboard and canasta for eternity? Plus there's all that bowing and scraping to the Valar. No thanks.

alatar · 11-11-2010, 12:40 PM

There's a *reason* the elves fled Valinor, and why Manwe (finally realizing the danger) walled the place off to us mortals.

xMellrynxMaidenx · 11-11-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo

If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. I think that's mentioned in Morgoth's Ring. It seems pretty unfair that these Elves are denied the chanced to stretch their legs in Valinor cause of something that happened thousands and thousands of years ago. I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls.

'Tis very true, I actually forgot the Umanyar.

It's been so long, I need to brush back up on everything. I do agree though, it is very unfair to them.

The points you guys raise does make one reconsider their choice...Middle Earth is pretty sizeable, after all.

A whole lot of traveling to do and places to see.

Morthoron...Picturing Lord Celeborn and Lord Elrond playing shuffleboard...it's priceless!

Galin · 11-11-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo

If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. (...)

I don't recall this myself. Maybe I'm off but maybe you're thinking of the idea that those Unbodied Elves who refuse the summons of Mandos -- that is, Elves who had died but refused to go to Mandos in spirit -- were not allowed to be re-born. At this stage Tolkien still imagined that Elves were reborn as elf-children incidentally, but he ultimately abandoned this form of reincarnation.

Quote:

I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls.

The re-born reported that there is little communing of kind with kind, or of any one fea with another, for the houseless fea is solitary by nature '... and turned toward those with whom, maybe, if formed strong bonds of love in life.' Morgoth's Ring

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eorl of Rohan

Well... Sooner or later, all elves have to leave middle earth. There is no choice. The fourth age is the age of Men, and elves have no place - they must either go to Valinor or fade away and die - who would then go to the Halls of MAndos and then go to Valinor later on.

As noted, Elves who die can refuse Mandos and remain in Middle-earth. Morgoth's Ring also mentions the Lingerers (faded Elves), but fading in the body does not equate to death.

Galadriel55 · 11-12-2010, 06:26 AM

Being any elf is pretty tiresome, really. How do they not get bored of living for milleniia, in Valinor or in ME? I'm tired of the world at the age of 13; imagine how I'd feel if I was an elf, destined to live for...well, forever. I much prefer humans.

Almesiva Moonshadow · 11-12-2010, 07:18 AM

I personally think I would stay in Middle Earth...
...Valinor just sounds soooo dull and boring...

Galadriel55 · 11-12-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almesiva Moonshadow

...Valinor just sounds soooo dull and boring...

Yes! You don't do anything except for have fun! Fun is good, but it's even better when you do other things as well. Not that I blame Frodo for leaving ME, but he's no elf, and I'm not Frodo. I wouldn't leave all the wonders of ME just for Valinor.

Galadriel · 11-14-2010, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Yes! You don't do anything except for have fun! Fun is good, but it's even better when you do other things as well. Not that I blame Frodo for leaving ME, but he's no elf, and I'm not Frodo. I wouldn't leave all the wonders of ME just for Valinor.

Valinor really does seem like an old-age home, doesn't it?

The only reason I'd go is because of that silly curse, that all elves will grow weary of ME eventually.

Galadriel · 11-14-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Being any elf is pretty tiresome, really. How do they not get bored of living for milleniia, in Valinor or in ME? I'm tired of the world at the age of 13; imagine how I'd feel if I was an elf, destined to live for...well, forever. I much prefer humans.

Lol, true that! Though I wouldn't mind recovering from injuries quickly and being tall. I'm really small

Galadriel55 · 11-22-2010, 06:26 AM

And I wouldn't mind being able to tell a finch from a sparrow from a mile away

My eyesight is pretty bad.

Galadriel · 11-27-2010, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And I wouldn't mind being able to tell a finch from a sparrow from a mile away

My eyesight is pretty bad.

Oh yeah. I hate bad eyesight

12-13-2003, 11:10 PM	#41
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Erm, the Grey Havens is in Middle-earth. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-14-2003, 12:20 AM	#42
dubleu Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the land we stole from the indians Posts: 13	Techniquely i suppose this is true however it is a "seperate land" and is their fore usually spoken of seperately __________________ live long die young and tell me how you did both.

12-14-2003, 01:09 AM	#43
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	As 'separate' as The Shire perhaps? I think they speak of it as a place in Middle Earth I would go to the Grey Havens to get to Valinori think it would be the most interesting place to live. __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

12-14-2003, 03:23 PM	#44
dubleu Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the land we stole from the indians Posts: 13	When i say seperate i mean they take a boat tere [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ live long die young and tell me how you did both.

12-17-2003, 08:49 PM	#46
Shenaran Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In Valinor, having fun and being merry...... Posts: 16	Who ever said it is right Gray Havens is in Middle Earth....I sure they meant leave Middle Earth via Gray Havens... I personally would stay for a while. __________________ "Ú i vethed... nâ i onnad." (This is not the end... it is the beginning.) My Forum: http://pub188.ezboard.com/blordoftherings55640

12-18-2003, 12:05 PM	#47
lord_of_rohan2003 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rohan Posts: 50	If I were a elf I would go after a 1000 year tour of the regular lands..but other then that I would just stay.Theres always the Shire to visit,Rohan,Gpndor and othe cool plases to see and live in.

12-19-2003, 01:21 PM	#48
Iris Alantiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 97	I think it would ultimately depend on the circumstances - if I was Arwen or Luthien, I'd have done exactly what they did, sure. But if it was just up to me and not based on any other people's actions or circumstances, I think I would probably be on the ship to Valinor, because I would want to take the opportunity to see something new. (This of course assumes that I've already been in ME for a couple of thousand years and am pretty familiar with it.) But I think a part of my heart would always mourn and be sad for the beauty that I've left behind. __________________ Above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell: I will not say the Day is done, nor bid the Stars farewell. -- Samwise Gamgee

12-22-2003, 06:37 PM	#49
Dragon Elf odin Ragnorock Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In The countless forests Posts: 35	I would say I would want to go to the gray Hevens. I would love to spend eternety in paradice insted of a living heck __________________ "People that we have lost or dreams that have faded....... we will never forget them" Yuna

01-31-2004, 07:02 AM	#50
rutslegolas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Elven Lands of India Posts: 533	if i were am elf from thranduil i would not leave middle earth but just reside in the realm of king aragorn till the end of his days and then perhaps go to the grey heavens __________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom.

01-31-2004, 07:26 AM	#51
Eorl of Rohan Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seoul, South Korea Posts: 602	Well... Sooner or later, all elves have to leave middle earth. There is no choice. The fourth age is the age of Men, and elves have no place - they must either go to Valinor or fade away and die - who would then go to the Halls of MAndos and then go to Valinor later on. __________________ There is no signature here.

11-09-2010, 11:48 PM	#52
Galadriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In Eldamar beside the walls of Elven Tirion Posts: 551	I'd probably tour Middle-earth for as long as Galadriel (from the time the Noldor returned), and then go to Valinor __________________ "Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?" – Tom Bombadil

11-10-2010, 06:05 PM	#53
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,454	I would probably do the same as Legolas - stay for a while, until it's worth it. I feel sorry for people like Gimli. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-11-2010, 04:23 AM	#55
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	If you are of the Umanyar, you are not reincarnated. Once you die you stay permenantly in the Halls of Mandos. I think that's mentioned in Morgoth's Ring. It seems pretty unfair that these Elves are denied the chanced to stretch their legs in Valinor cause of something that happened thousands and thousands of years ago. I think it's mentioned in the same book the the Umanyar don't even speak to the other Elves in the Halls. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

11-11-2010, 10:19 AM	#56
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Middle Earth - that's where all the fun is. Sure, the elves did stuff in Ages past when in Valinor, but that just led to problems, and so surely Manwe has put a stop to all creativity now. And I know that the 'left behind' elves of Middle Earth suffer bouts of melancholy, but with all of the new things that appear in Middle Earth (hobbits, humans, etc), I think that I could stave off the blues for a good while. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

11-11-2010, 11:42 AM	#57
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,510	Middle-earth. Valinor is like an Elvish retirement community. Who wants to play shuffleboard and canasta for eternity? Plus there's all that bowing and scraping to the Valar. No thanks. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

11-11-2010, 12:40 PM	#58
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	There's a reason the elves fled Valinor, and why Manwe (finally realizing the danger) walled the place off to us mortals. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

11-12-2010, 06:26 AM	#61
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,454	Being any elf is pretty tiresome, really. How do they not get bored of living for milleniia, in Valinor or in ME? I'm tired of the world at the age of 13; imagine how I'd feel if I was an elf, destined to live for...well, forever. I much prefer humans. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-12-2010, 07:18 AM	#62
Almesiva Moonshadow Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Serbia Posts: 34	I personally think I would stay in Middle Earth... ...Valinor just sounds soooo dull and boring...

11-22-2010, 06:26 AM	#66
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,454	And I wouldn't mind being able to tell a finch from a sparrow from a mile away My eyesight is pretty bad. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera