WW CI - Mutton yesterDay, mutton toDay and mutton toMorrow

[Brinniel]

Okay, so I kinda overslept, so I don't have much time.

So far I'm feeling good about Rikae. She seems the most genuine at least. Pom seems okay as well, for now.

I don't like Copper's vote because Boro has hardly said anything and I don't know how she can get a gut feeling about him based on those posts. I'd hold off on voting her toDay though, because I haven't played with Copper before and don't know her playing style.

Morsul votes Kath based on some weak cobbler suspicions. But wouldn't it be better to vote for a suspected wizard? But I'll let it pass, since in his defense there is so little to go on right now.

I don't like all of Sally's bantering, but then again it is Sally.

My vote toDay will be:

++Nerwen

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.

[Boromir88]

The good news for ToDay(Night) is the extreme cold has granted me a day off, so I'll be here. Future participation will be as expectexted, not being here last few hours of the DL.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't like Copper's vote because Boro has hardly said anything and I don't know how she can get a gut feeling about him based on those posts. I'd hold off on voting her toDay though, because I haven't played with Copper before and don't know her playing style.

Morsul votes Kath based on some weak cobbler suspicions. But wouldn't it be better to vote for a suspected wizard? But I'll let it pass, since in his defense there is so little to go on right now.

Cop's early vote does bebuther me, not because of voting early, but I don't understand what makes my IC banter more gut-feeling suspicious than the rest I do talk about eatin' frequently, but when I do think, Iz usually thinkin bout food.

Morsul's is less buthersom, cuz we see a clear line of logic...er logical amongst troll herds...mmm herds need shepp'erds shepp'erds are some fine dining. Umm oh, Morsul's vote. I wouldn't vote for Kath based on his reasons, but his early vote dispalys his mind and what he's thinking clear enough. It's reasonin' we can track, if you follow me, and not gut-feelings.

Nothin' against gut-feelings, if that's all you've got goin' on, but not all guts are the same. You can't track gut-feelings, it tells what yer stomach's thinkin', not what yer brains are. Ill gut-feelings could be spoiled mutton for dinner. When you use head-feelings, you can at least track bad, good, innocent or guilty reasonin'.

Boils down to we know what Morsul's thinking with his early vote. Can't tell what Cop is.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Oy, I know we may be trolls, but we be trolls in one ugly situation. Really, banter may be all fun, but it won't do us much good in the long run. Don't ye think it's time we pick out who these nasty wizards are? Or they'll soon enough turn us all into stone. And we won't be gettin even mutton to eat if we all stone.

Agreed. I can't keep up with such creative banter anyway.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, One thing I'm curious about is why Morsul (#24) saw Kath's references to singing and The Wizard of Oz (#5,#13) as possible cobbler-hints.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I was going to quote the question but since a fair amount of people are asking.

The reason I see Kat's singing as a possible hint is the song she chose. The "Wonderful" Wizard of Oz.

I's like to subject to this he'e Cou't No wiz is a wondafuh wiz eh?

Meh, that's a stretch, but as a Day (Night?) 1 vote, maybe not so bad.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Who was it who asked me why I suspected Zil? I suspect him because I always suspect him, simple as that. He's distracting, hanging around looking evil all the time. I want to lynch him so I don't have to worry about it.

Ah, yes. it's mutual, naturally.

++Rik...

Nah, not yet.

[Volo]

I think my ears are so full of hair that I can hear only bits and pieces, which is to say I've skimmed through. The case with Kath seems too harsh. To me her posts feel like empty banter - even due to the various more complex interpretations which could be read from them. To my knowledge, Kath can be a very brave player, but currently no other interpretation but troll feels based enough to me. Until further notice that is.

Maybe by lifting Lom and Leg, clues could be found from under them. We don't actually know if Wizers look like trolls, they might be earthworms for all I can say.

If I find no earthworms I'll try to clear my ears of excessive hair.

[Gil-Galad]

Blimey these votes be spread out. Wouldn't that make for a game if we all just voted for the person next to us in a grand display of mass lynching.

My gut feeling person hasn't spoken up enough for me to warrant a vote against them.

Cop -> Bor

I agree with Brin on how the first day is always the worst, and while I see Cop's point on Bor not posting anything to add, I fear if Bor gets voted it is because of that, he would be an easy vote like the fate I befall so many times in the past.

Mor -> Kat

Mor's reasoning is rather picky, but I think he is just trying to justify his gut feeling to his vote. I know that feeling, as mentioned earlier.

Brin -> Ner

Makes an understandable attempt at Ner, but then again first day lynchings is always the hardest. and Ner has had the most substantial input today.

Hate that this is my only chance to vote, and I don't want to add another name to this growing list, I am going to have to say:

++Nerwen

The thing with this game is being careful on what to say, and to note on how the Wizer's and Cobblers will try to bring up other arguments between other players to not be looked at themselves.

[Nerwen]

This may sound like an "omgus" post- but honestly, I think Gil's post there looks really bad. He says he's voting me so as not to "add another name to this growing list"- a list (at the time of posting) of three names in a village of eighteen.

[Bane Mantra]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

The thing with this game is being careful on what to say, and to note on how the Wizer's and Cobblers will try to bring up other arguments between other players to not be looked at themselves.

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

Cop -> Bor

I agree with Brin on how the first day is always the worst, and while I see Cop's point on Bor not posting anything to add, I fear if Bor gets voted it is because of that, he would be an easy vote like the fate I befall so many times in the past.

Mor -> Kat

Mor's reasoning is rather picky, but I think he is just trying to justify his gut feeling to his vote. I know that feeling, as mentioned earlier.

Brin -> Ner

Makes an understandable attempt at Ner, but then again first day lynchings is always the hardest. and Ner has had the most substantial input today

Perhaps they will indeed, Gil.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Bane Mantra

Perhaps they will indeed, Gil.

So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.

And in my defence Bane I was just summing up other players reasoning on votes. I forgot how statements can be turned against me.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.

I know, I know, people who never vote on Day One are a disgrace, aren't we- er, I mean they?

But seriously- Gil, at the point when three people each have one vote, you're certainly not limited to them only, and when you claim you are, it looks like opportunism followed by hand washing.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.

I can understand wanting to give a vote, even when there's not a great deal to work with. I think your reasoning for doing so seems off though; not wanting to look suspicious yourself.

[Nogrod]

"For a couple o' pins," says Troll, and grins,
"I'll eat thee Wizers, and gnaw thy shins.
A bit o' fresh meat will go down sweet!
I'll try my teeth on thee now.
Hee now! See now!
I'm tired o' gnawing old bones and skins;
I've a mind to dine on thee Wizer now."

Two pages of banter... I'm not sure if I'm feeling nostalgic for the good ole times or just remembering why it was soo annoying back then with the huge games when there was much to read but little to chew...

I don't basically like any of the votes given as yet, if that is any starter. They all look like people wished to justify their votes a bit too much comparing to the little or non-existent evidence there was at the time of their votes.

But even there - and knowing Gil's history - I need to pick out this for the most awkward one of them:

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

Brin -> Ner

Makes an understandable attempt at Ner, but then again first day lynchings is always the hardest. and Ner has had the most substantial input today.

An "attempt"? An "understandable attempt" when it is is "the hardest" Day to get someone lynched? I mean, yes it might be a language issue, but to me an attempt sounds like something you do when you know what you are doing / aiming at... And then, after saying he thinks Nerwen has been "the most substantial" poster today, he goes to vote her as well because he doesn't want to spread the vote...

I hate to be able only to put forth these two slight remarks, but I just read this through in a hurry and have a lots of work to do. I will be back later with hopefully something better later toDay (I will be back).


EDIT: X'd with the last few...

[Pomegranate]

My gut-feeling of Rikae is good. I had the same of Brin, but her voting post doesn't sit well with me on second reading.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.

Suspicious behavior = being around and enjoying trolling + trying to find something to say to get the ball rolling? Getting the discussion going with substance is hard on the first Day (as Brin herself states) and Ner's comments on Morsul and Cop seem to me just ways of getting some more substance into the game. Which in general is a good thing, and even though I wouldn't say it makes Ner happily innocent in my eyes, I wouldn't see it as suspicious, more the opposite.

[Pomegranate]

Nog, I can't believe I read that wrong, on both occurrences as well! 'Thee' is the old singular of 'you', nowadays replaced by the latter. So it doesn't work anyway but now it's just poetically incorrect rather than substantially weird

[McCaber]

You know what? I will bite on this.

++Coppermirror

for being hasty and suspicion-mongering.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, I think I'll need to go now, so won't have time to search for subtleties in the rest of the posts. I'll need to go with

++Cop

for the reasons stated earlier. Even though I'm not at all fond of Brin's voting post, she was amongst the first to actually try to say something, and I like that, so it will give her a pass for now, since there is someone else that I suspect as well. But I'll be keeping an eye on her.

edit. x/ed with Cab

[Pomegranate]

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

Is that irony I smell, or is someone cooking bacon?

[Inziladun]

Coppermirror--> Boro (1)
Morsul--> Kath (1)
Brinn--> Nerwen (1)
Gil--> Nerwen (2)
Cab--> Coppermirror (1)
Pom--> Coppermirror (2)

Let's see, the rules say the first to reach a total in the event of a tie are lynched, I think. At any rate, there's still some time. But what to make of this?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Is that irony I smell, or is someone cooking bacon?

Yes indeed. An odd thing to say.

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

I agree with you, but I will advocate for the lynching of your right to say it!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Two hours to go in the day and Sally finally thinks to call me and let me know the game's started.

I'll try and make an informed vote by reading the thread, but no promises.

[A Little Green]

Here at last, sorry for taking this long! Starting my commentary on things said already very early, so bear with me if they're already outdated.

Originally Posted by McCaber

Kath: IC posts and suspicion of Morsul.
Inzil: claims to be too skinny to eat and defends Pom. Automatically suspicious, as every troll knows that anything worth having is worth eating.

Originally Posted by Volo

McCaber, your use of suspicious in post #29 felt somewhat exaggerated. Or was it all just observations on humorous exchanges? Or some as actual interpretations of suspicion?

I agree with Volo; that caught my eye as well. These two points especially (the ones quoted above, boobies) looked, at least in my view, like misinterpreting things or overinterpreting them. Speaking about Kath's suspicion of Morsul looks like an exaggeration to me, and the way I interpreted it, Inzil wasn't defending Pom but rather saying that what she had said was reasonable enough but all in all a fairly basic thing to say on Day 1 (in response to Morsul saying she made good points, if I remember correctly). Might be honest mistakes on his part or mine, but I'm also aware that phrasing things in a strong way in a summary is a nice, subtle tool for altering the impression other players have of the posts in question.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, One thing I'm curious about is why Morsul (#24) saw Kath's references to singing and The Wizard of Oz (#5,#13) as possible cobbler-hints.

Originally Posted by Morsul

The reason I see Kat's singing as a possible hint is the song she chose. The "Wonderful" Wizard of Oz.

I's like to subject to this he'e Cou't No wiz is a wondafuh wiz eh?

I'm not sure about this logic. I can see where he's coming from, but I just don't see it as a strong enough argument for Kath being a Cobbler to justify voting for her over potential Wizers. If that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Rikae

The only thing more useless than banter is recap of banter. I've never played with Copper before, but I have played with many a wolf (or wizard) who made long, detailed, organized posts with little content. I have a bad feeling about it.

This is a very good point.

Originally Posted by Brin

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.

Funny, actually; I could see a reason to suspect Nerwen but it's nothing to do with any of these Brinn mentioned. I'm more concerned about the fact that she was bantering happily until someone (was it Brinn?) came along and said she disapproved of the banter; Nerwen's next post was all serious and "Yes, you're right, let's get down to business". It is curious that a player as independent-minded as Nerwen did not stop bantering by herself if she thought it was excessive and that it was time to move on. Then again, I disagree with Brinn's reasons for suspecting her and don't suspect her overall (which I never seem to do, regardless of her role).

Whoa. All I can say is, someone needs to flip-flop now that good ol' Lom is turned to stone.

Originally Posted by Boro

I wouldn't vote for Kath based on his reasons, but his early vote dispalys his mind and what he's thinking clear enough. It's reasonin' we can track, if you follow me, and not gut-feelings.

This makes a lot of sense and makes me feel better about Boro for no good reason.

Originally Posted by Gil

I agree with Brin on how the first day is always the worst, and while I see Cop's point on Bor not posting anything to add, I fear if Bor gets voted it is because of that, he would be an easy vote like the fate I befall so many times in the past.

Originally Posted by Pom

Boro can be a very strong player, and in case he's innocent getting rid of him early in the game when he hasn't had time to contribute much would seem like a reasonable thing for a Wizard to do. Then again, it is hardly starting a bandwagon, because of the total lack of evidence. But he could've been trusting that people (like Gil) would rather vote for someone who already has a vote, than someone who doesn't?

Two radically different views on Cop's Boro vote; I disagree with both. No, I don't think Boro is by any means an easy Day 1 lynch; quite the contrary, I very much doubt a Wizer in search of an easy bandwagon target would try Boro, since strong, active, reasonable players seldom get lynched on Day 1 without hard evidence (which Cop obviously didn't have). As for Pom's speculation of Wizers wanting to get rid of an innocent Boro early on - probably, but again, I doubt they'd try to make him into a Day 1 lynch even with decent arguments. They'd know it was unlikely to work.

Why, then, did Cop vote for Boro? She might be telling the truth; gut-feeling based on something the rest of us didn't spot, whether real or imagined. If she is a Wiz, I'd see the Boro-vote as a very safe and easy one: unlikely to start a bandwagon (as Pom pointed out) so not leading to the death of an innocent and thus accusations of bandwagoning. The chance of us hitting a Wizer at this point aren't so high as to force the Wizers to try and steer the lynch so actively; they can lay back and relax as long as it isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

This may sound like an "omgus" post- but honestly, I think Gil's post there looks really bad. He says he's voting me so as not to "add another name to this growing list"- a list (at the time of posting) of three names in a village of eighteen.

Fair point; this part didn't make sense to me, either.

Originally Posted by Boro

I think you're looking more defensive at the moment than Nerwen. Having said that, I'd say you're also the one that many seem to want to jump after and pile on right now...hence the defensiveness.

Partially stirred by you though, with how you're the typical red-shirt, and then assuming everything you say is now getting turned against to. I honestly laughed at your redshirt comment for nostalgia reasons. Maybe I just think myself more ancient than the most, but I would guess I'm one of the few who would remember your 'style'...it's been a long time for sure. It's just making you look not only defensive but paranoid.

Agreed with this as well. Deciding in advance that you're going to be lynched no matter what is not the most fruitful of attitudes, though, and I still don't quite understand the reason behind the Nerwen-vote. Provoking a reaction, fine, that it certainly did, and it's a good strategy, too; I just don't see you doing it unless you also had some reason to pick Nerwen in particular to be tested.

Originally Posted by Sally

I honestly believe a WizGil wouldn't be laying it on so thick toDay, or at least so early. Playing victim is a decent wolf tactic when done correctly, but he's been doing it since the start, which is far too much and far too dangerous for a baddie to do. Perhaps he's a cobbler, perhaps an ordo, but I'd be willing to bet cupcakes on him not being a wolf. It just doesn't look right to me.

Also agreeing with this. Definitely not voting Gil toDay unless something drastic happens to change my opinion.

Originally Posted by Pom

Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

The girl's got some nerve saying this right after voting Cop herself.


EDIT: x-ed with Cab, Shaz, Vol and Rick

[Volo]

I try to bring out these thoughts in the form they came to me when I was rereading the whole Day chronologically and try not to be swayed by the later trend in reasoning.

First, rereading Kath, her responce in #13 is towards Loslote's #12 (in a OC manner) and not to the rather more substantial question in #9. Since trying to seem as clever as that in the first post, as Kath could be interpreted to do, would be near suicidal, I thought her to be a fellow troll, but not responding to the rather straight forward question in #9 in any way feels ingenuine, and could be intentionally upkeeping a mysterious air. Focusing discussion on such clever-like qualities is bad tact for the troll-guys, but since it has been mentioned before I felt fine with elaborating the talk.

Next over to Morsul in #24. His interpretation seems rather sensible to me, but at such a point saying stuff like rather easily holds the implication that the cobbler-accusant could also be the clever-troll. And bringing attention to that is fishy, or thoughtless.

Further off in the same vein, Nerwen in #64. The reaction is rather cold, and I know that's a vague and rethorical expression, thus more based in the gut.
So is Morsul and his theory about "Wonderful" clutching at straws or his genuine impression and reason to vote? To me it also feels a bit far-fetched, but then again, Day1...
Ok that said, Nerwen's #64 feels understandable and still there's a bit too little reasoning. Yet I'd like to hear more thoughts on the subject, especially from N.

Well, Gil and the now infamous #73. He's got my sympathies, due to past games and some personal similarities. Still, the vote felt like joining a ready case with rather slippery or not clearly expressed reasoning.
Spreading out votes on such colossal Day1 can be just as handy for catching Wizers on later Days. They have a slight group-mind compared to others and will have more power to influence votes on Day1, and using that influence will help us pick out the sources. Of course this happens for the price of Wizers potentially picking the Day1 lynch.

Concerning my own play style and post #72: I wanted to imply with the banter that I would be away for a while due to going to the gym and swimming (lifting rocks and having ears stuffed, haha). Obviously it wouldn't be understood, there's no context what so ever, but I have the fault of liking cryptic humour - much to the bafflement of even my flatmates. I solemnly swear that I'd rather learn to be more clear in my expression and that I am be ok with being asked what I was trying to say.

More thoughts, Gil does feel more like himself when he ought to be suspected, but have the luxury of time to reread and re-evaluate. I would for him to stay with us for longer, obviously if he was lucky enough to be on the troll-side.

[Bane Mantra]

Originally Posted by Volo

Well, Gil and the now infamous #73. He's got my sympathies, due to past games and some personal similarities. Still, the vote felt like joining a ready case with rather slippery or not clearly expressed reasoning.
Spreading out votes on such colossal Day1 can be just as handy for catching Wizers on later Days. They have a slight group-mind compared to others and will have more power to influence votes on Day1, and using that influence will help us pick out the sources. Of course this happens for the price of Wizers potentially picking the Day1 lynch.

Well, if the Wizzards do pick DayNight1's lynch, what of it? That's the trouble with a game this large - nobody can ever be certain of someone's identity, unless a Clever Troll speaks up about it. But the price, I feel, if not worth it, per se, is inevitable and we should use it to our advantage. Hunt down those that lead to a mislynch and squash 'em inter jelly, as it were.

Originally Posted by Volo

Concerning my own play style and post #72: I wanted to imply with the banter that I would be away for a while due to going to the gym and swimming (lifting rocks and having ears stuffed, haha). Obviously it wouldn't be understood, there's no context what so ever, but I have the fault of liking cryptic humour - much to the bafflement of even my flatmates. I solemnly swear that I'd rather learn to be more clear in my expression and that I am be ok with being asked what I was trying to say.

That's perfectly fine, then. Just wait 'til I start pulling elaborately mixed metaphors out of thin air.

EDIT: x'd with Rick and Cab

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

Haha!

This post led me to suspect Pom heavily on D1 - not firstly because he said "keep an eye on Cop-voters", but rather because it felt like she panicked for the double-vote on Copper. Now that we know the other voter was CabWizard, the panic looks more understandable. And she even kind of defends Cab there!

The question sure stays: is this panic coming from only them two voting the same innocent troll, or is there a further reason to panic aka. them trying to save a third?

[Inziladun]

All right, I had a moment when I thought people were already making up their minds I was guilty. I was tired, and the fact that Rikae of all people was leading the charge induced me to rashness.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't do it again.

I had wanted to see Rikae as innocent, but instead saw what appeared to be blatant hypocrisy in the way she'd treated those who suspected Morsul compared to her tunnel vision toward me.