Native american indians?

[Ulvenok]

There are various made-up races in fantasy and science fiction that are generally assumed to be based on actual peoples. But this is because they have specific, obvious points of cultural similarity. "Lived in harmony with nature" is much too vague to cut it.

I was thinking more of it's geographical location in the world and how it relates to our world. But then again maybe that continent after Valinor was meant to be america in Tolkien's mind. In either case it's fun to speculate, I wonder if the other locations in middle earth stand in some relation to our world map. Then Mordor would be around Israel wouldn't it!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Ulvenok

Then Mordor would be around Israel wouldn't it!

But then Gondor would be under the waves, wouldn't it?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Ulvenok

I was thinking more of it's geographical location in the world and how it relates to our world. But then again maybe that continent after Valinor was meant to be america in Tolkien's mind. In either case it's fun to speculate, I wonder if the other locations in middle earth stand in some relation to our world map. Then Mordor would be around Israel wouldn't it!

Mordor is directly east of Gondor, so your supposition is wrong. Map from Encyclopedia of Arda

It helps if you read the texts closely or check out the maps Tolkien drew.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ulvenok

I was thinking more of it's geographical location in the world and how it relates to our world. But then again maybe that continent after Valinor was meant to be america in Tolkien's mind. In either case it's fun to speculate, I wonder if the other locations in middle earth stand in some relation to our world map. Then Mordor would be around Israel wouldn't it!

It is not a matter for speculation, it has nothing to do with America at all. You have to understand the specific mythological references Tolkien uses. Avallonë (Avalon) and Atalantë (Atlantis) have precedence in real world legend and myth.

Atlantis (Island of Atlas) as referred to by Plato was a separate island continent thought to be located (by later cartographers) in the Atlantic Ocean west of Spain and Africa and east of the Americas. Like Tolkien's Numenor, Atlantis sank beneath the sea in a giant cataclysm.

Avalon (Ynys Afallon/Afallach/Aballac in Welsh), The Isle of the Apple, derived from the Old Irish Emain Ablach), is part of ancient Welsh, Cornish, Breton and Briton myth, and is the land where the wounded King Arthur sailed after his fateful battle with Mordred. It is sometimes related to Glastonbury, and is also cognizant with Tir Na Nog of the Irish, the Fortunate Isle, the Isle of the Young, etc. It is, in essence, what Tolkien would refer to as "Faery", the netherworld.

The Americas were a different land mass altogether and not referred to by Tolkien. Such a land mass most likely did not come about until after Eru reshaped the world during the destruction of Numenor.

[Ulvenok]

I think you're right Morthoron.

[alatar]

I think that Ulvenok's right about Morthoron being right.

[Nice summary Morth!]

[alatar]

And Ulvenok, what do you think about the south american natives? I always saw the Mayans (due to the human sacrificing) as Black Númenóreans that set up shop elsewhere before Sauron's pseudo-drowning.

[Ulvenok]

They worshipped the sun and the sun is, Arien; too bright were her eyes for even the Eldar to look on, and leaving Valinor she forsook the form and raiment which like the Valar she had worn there, and she was as a naked flame, terrible in the fullness of her splendour. I can't imagine any elves would bother worshipping her since they couldn't look into her eyes.

So I think south america would be...probably Valinor yes....