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#1 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 41
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He may have removed the fairies but Tom and Goldberry are still there. Tom found Goldberry in a river and he sometimes refers to her as the riverwoman's daughter. Who is the riverwoman? Another unclassified being we know nothing about. Anyway I still find this quote intriguing.
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Anyway it's very interesting that Tolkien chose to include a being like Ungoliant in the Lord of the rings, a very minor major comment indeed. Last edited by Ulvenok; 01-06-2013 at 08:39 AM. |
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#3 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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I always think that Tom was part of Eru's creation of Arda itself, separate to the Valar, the Elves and Men. And put there by Tolkien to confound us! It would be very easy to have Eru create an ordered world with all the necessary gods and races in their correct place but Tolkien doesn't let Eru do that. Instead, Eru really is omnipotent and unknowable and lets beings like Tom and Ungoliant into his creation - as a result confounding all the readers!
We can only theorise ![]() My theory on Ungoliant is that she isn't evil at all. She is simply an 'absence of light' or Un- Light. If Light is seen as somehow 'holy' in Tolkien's creation then Ungoliant is an absence of Light. She feeds on it like a black hole, but she isn't evil as she is part of what Eru either sent into the world or caused to happen during its creation.
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#4 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 257
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Came to a sticky end too, didn't she eat herself?
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Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia |
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#5 |
Newly Deceased
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8
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I would say Ungoliant is a being of power somewhere between the Valar and the Maiar. It's pretty clear that sufficiently strong Maiar could defeat a Valar. Eonwe (Herald of Manwe) "whose might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda" So even the great warrior Tulkas could not defeat Eonwe.
At any rate, the Silmarillion describes Ungoliant as descending "from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe, and that in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted into his service." So, she was one of the spirits that entered the world after its creation.. just like the other Maiar and the Valar. It's a pet theory of mine that lesser spirits (less than the weakest Maiar) explain creatures like the Eagles, Huon, Tom, and even (perhaps) Ents. These lesser spirits descent into the world but are not corporeal. They join the bodies of non-intelligent creatures and make them "more." The Eagles are HUGE. Huan can speak. Ents move about and speak. Melkor appears to do something similar with Carcaroth where "he became filled with a devouring spirit." |
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#6 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 41
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Last edited by Ulvenok; 01-07-2013 at 01:22 PM. |
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#7 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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I'm not averse to the theory that Ungoliant was a being whose origin lay in the Discord of Melkor; evidently there were beings which operated outside the conventional Vala-Maia-Elf-Man "power structure" of Arda. |
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#8 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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I'm in favor of the idea that Ungoliant and Tom Bomadil were possibly kindred spirits; both Ainu who entered Arda separately from the Valar, acting apart from them in pursuit of different motives.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#9 | ||
Newly Deceased
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8
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Bombadil IS a complete unknown (and therefore fun to discuss). However, when I put something in quotes, that means the statement is a QUOTATION. The statement about UNgoliant comes straight from the Silmarillion... Chapter 8 "Of The Darkening Of Valinor".... second paragraph... a little more than half way through. |
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#10 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 41
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Not to say an vala would not be able to corrupt another vala like being close to himself in power. Also that quote: Quote:
Last edited by Ulvenok; 01-08-2013 at 08:00 AM. |
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