The Hobbit: An Extraneous Journey

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I have yet to see a thoughtful refutation of my post; in fact, several posts from a certain tag-team seem to ignore commentary on the film altogether: one refers to other posters as "idiots" and questions their sanity for merely seeing and disliking a movie, and the other accuses a poster of "flaming" and is more concerned where a review is posted. Ironic isn't it? And it does lead one to question the hypocritical manner of their indignance.

When it comes to something subjective like what we experienced, or felt, watching a film what's the point of typing a refutation? I expect different experiences than my own, and am not shocked when someone decides to love it/hate it/whatever it more than me. It would be the pinnacle of hubris if I pointed out "I didn't care for your review, and here's why..." because it relies on the assumption that your behavior and subjective experience should rely on my personal opinions. And we should both agree, that I'm just not that important.

However, if you're looking for a review of your review...I thought it ironic that your overall criticism of the film was the length and Jackson added too much bloat. Yet found your post dragged me through just as much extraneous fluff. The difference being I thought your sour frosting was engaging enough or I wouldn't have replied.

[Bêthberry]

You know, I took this thread as an over the top joke, a place to really have fun dissing the movie without disrupting, insulting or distorting Aganzir's thread, so that what is said here would not reflect on the other thread.

Like Kuru's post about the balrog and wings--an old joke we can all enjoy anew.

It's nothing personal. It's not a flame at a person. It's not showboating. It is just Morth being his curmudeonly self. If you don't like his style or his excruciatingly detailed dissing of the movie, don't read the thread. It's a place for over the top rants at PJ. For balance, read Aganzir's thread.

After all, I don't see Aganzir complaining that this has upstaged her thread.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

When it comes to something subjective like what we experienced, or felt, watching a film what's the point of typing a refutation? I expect different experiences than my own, and am not shocked when someone decides to love it/hate it/whatever it more than me. It would be the pinnacle of hubris if I pointed out "I didn't care for your review, and here's why..." because it relies on the assumption that your behavior and subjective experience should rely on my personal opinions. And we should both agree, that I'm just not that important.

However, if you're looking for a review of your review...I thought it ironic that your overall criticism of the film was the length and Jackson added too much bloat. Yet found your post dragged me through just as much extraneous fluff. The difference being I thought your sour frosting was engaging enough or I wouldn't have replied.

That's the spirit!

Sour frosting? No, it is bittersweet, Boro, bittersweet.

In regards to the bloat of my critique, I must say I was only mirroring the movie. Actually, this was only Part One of the review. I have another two full-length pages of expositional viturperation to hurl. An then there are the extended editions.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

You know, I took this thread as an over the top joke, a place to really have fun dissing the movie without disrupting, insulting or distorting Aganzir's thread, so that what is said here would not reflect on the other thread.

Like Kuru's post about the balrog and wings--an old joke we can all enjoy anew.

It's nothing personal. It's not a flame at a person. It's not showboating. It is just Morth being his curmudeonly self. If you don't like his style or his excruciatingly detailed dissing of the movie, don't read the thread. It's a place for over the top rants at PJ. For balance, read Aganzir's thread.

After all, I don't see Aganzir complaining that this has upstaged her thread.

Yes, one thing I do prize is the Down's balance, the ability to speak freely on both sides of a position and not be beholden to a specific set of sycophantic rules dogmatically adhered to like some common fan site. Lately, one would think we have entered the twilight of TheOneRing.net zone.

*shudders*

Oh, the humanity!

P.S. Although it was not my original idea, I think Beth's concept is good and we should use this inappropriate and obviously heretical thread to voice any dissent we have regarding the movies. Heaven knows I would not wish to upstage dear Agan with my "excruciatingly detailed dissing".

[Nerwen]

As a general thing: it now seems likely that, deservedly or not, AUJ is going to continue to draw more than a bit of negative comment (and not just here). Those who really loved the film will need to learn to deal with that, and not take it as a personal insult, particularly not one to which they need to respond by flaming. It's not like you're helping the movie's reputation by this, either, even incrementally: nobody's going to slap himself on the forehead and say, "No, wait, you're right, it's actually a masterpiece!" because you call him an idiot for not liking it.

I've seen this pattern many times when a film has a mixed reception, and it's always seemed to me to be a pretty depressing exercise in futility.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

As a general thing: it now seems likely that, deservedly or not, AUJ is going to continue to draw more than a bit of negative comment (and not just here). Those who really loved the film will need to learn to deal with that, and not take it as a personal insult, particularly not one to which they need to respond by flaming.

Try telling them that over at TORN or TORC.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Try telling them that over at TORN or TORC.

That would also be an exercise in futility.

[davem]

I will, I think, now bow out of this one (unless I change my mind at some point). I am aware that not everyone gets my approach, which is to attack points made by individuals rather than individuals themselves. For the record, and however badly I've expressed it: AUJ is, put simply, a Peter Jackson film. It contains all his faults and all his virtues, all the faults of his virtues and all the virtues if his faults. It's exactly the film anyone who has seen his previous films should have expected. You have to adjust your mindset to his, because he won't adjust his to yours. If you go along to see the film as an old fashioned Hollywood adventure movie, expecting nothing but a fun ride, you'll probably enjoy the experience a lot - even be moved and uplifted at times. If, on the other hand, you expect high art, profound analysis of the human condition, and a complete absence of beheadings/snot jokes then you'll end up sad and lonely and left with nothing but the bitter realisation that you went to see the wrong film.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

My goodness, I had little time to monitor the movie review threads because of holiday guests, and now I discover that members who have been around long enough to know better are not just stating their opinions but taking umbrage at others who disagree. This is not acceptable on the Downs. Flame wars and personal insults are not discussion. Neither is an attempt to call everyone who disagrees with your judgement stupid.

I am closing this thread temporarily till everyone has time to cool off and calm down. Whether or not it will then stay open depends on the following posts.

Anyone who opens a new thread attempting to do something similar will have that thread closed and deleted.

May I refer long-time members and newcomers (who can expect a polite, friendly reception of their first posts) to the forum guideline threads on posting on the Barrow-Downs:

Guidelines for Posting
FAQ
Forum Policies