Game thread - Werewolf C - The Father Christmas Murders

[Thinlómien]

Finally here! I hope you all had as nice Christmas as I did but it looks like you folks posted more. I'll try to redeem that: now here are some thoughts...


YesterDay

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Very sure, thank you. But you commenting on that and trying to make it look like a signal does give me something extra to analyse about whether or not you're the Cobbler or a wolf, given that the gist of my comment settled on it being more likely that your statement was a Cobbler or wolf sign. Granted, I haven't suspected you a huge amount yet.

Wait, what???

End-of-Day1 Galadriel gives me a fishy feel. Both for praising my vote as impressive (which it wasn't) and her gut-feelingy suspicions that seem just fabricated. (Also "I haven't changed my gut-feelings"... huh? Does that mean you intentionally change them sometimes???)

End-of-Day1 McCaber, on the other hand, seems pretty sincere but I agree with whoever said it's not very profitable for us that he intentionally withholds stuff. Furthermore, his vote is not very impressive really - it's little more than a random vote. (Come on, who abatsins otally from posting intentionally? Most likely people have RL stuff in those cases.) I also like End-of-Day-1 Eönwë. He seems pretty sharp. Shasta has a good point about his vote possibly being suspiciously carefully structured, though.

Not really surprised about Boro being an ordo, and kind of curious about how that lynched happened. It seemed as if it came quite out of the blue even though it kept slowly unfolding during the later hald of the day. Have to think about that.


Last Night

I'm impressed! I don't remember when I last played with a ranger save. I am, however, a little sad of having less clues since there was no kill, but now it will be interesting to think who could have been targeted by both the wolves and the ranger last Night... Off the top of my head, I'd say Shasta, Nerwen, McCaber or Steve. Not very helpful, eh?



ToDay (it's been pretty long already)

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I have to leave now, but I wrote up a post last Night. Looks as if I don't need to edit it in response to someone getting killed overNight after all. I'm just going to post it unabridged and head off to do Christmassy things.

Ah, again the confidence in not getting killed... I have started witch hunts on this basis innumerable times. This time I'll just read on and see who starts it first... Although this one really makes my eyebrows jump with the pre-written condolences and all! Also pretty hypocritical-seeming commentary of yesterday in that post. I'm really not very happy about Coppermirror atm... [Later comment: so it was Legate who first brought it up! I knew it'd happen. Not sure what this makes me think of Legate. Probably that he and I think likewise.]

Looking at the voting record posted by McC, I have to say that if Inzil is a wolf, we'd better have a good look at Monsieur McC himself. Steve could be a packmate of Inzil's too. G55's vote looks totally out of plce, and doesn't exactly make me less suspicious of her.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Ha! That should show these two villains that they aren't the boss here! That should show them that the situation could be reversed! And it will be reversed! We'll make them scared instead of beig afraid of them! Way to go, Ranger!

[/weird random obligatory IC]*

This gal seems just way too self-conscious about what she's posting.

Sally seems pretty ok once she appears.

Originally Posted by Morsul

SO it feels like Lommy is trying to make genuine prgress but running into blocks.

Thanks Morsul, that actually summarizes how I feel every single ww game.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

You just made my day, Eönwë!

Originally Posted by Eönwë

What did you mean here, Morsul?

That does seem pretty suspicious phrasing, I have to say! But it seems to suspicious to be an actual Freudian slip, especially as it's by Morsul.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

For a moment I'll throw around the possibility of a Legate-Eonwe pack (and guys, I'm not accusing you here, just imagining scenarios). Legate apparently has a habit of voting for Boro early on in games. Knowing that and that Boro is innocent, they could use that as cover for a Boro vote, and Eonwe could follow on with it...But if that was planned out, would Eonwe omit to give any firm reasoning? Wolf-Eonwe wouldn't want to say "I suspect him for the same reason Legate does", but I find it hard to believe that someone would skimp on finding another reason. Provisionally, I'm going to conclude it's not likely that we have a Legate-Eonwe pack here. It's also just not likely that two wolves would vote for the same person when they're only a two-wolf pack.

Fair reasoning.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Silti löytää McCab epäluuloinen, mutta ilmeisesti nyt minulla on aikaa saatan löydän VTE valitettavaa, sillä yksi iso tarkoituksena äänestys oli välttää modfiring befre DL tänä iltana (koska ajattelin, että se oli vielä tänä iltana ja onko olisin takaisin oli kyseessä ...)***

Please don't kill me! *facepalms while laughing* This one actually makes sense more or less though!

I think from now on I could just post in Finnish, and you guys could google translate it, since it seems to go so well. Deal?


Ha, reading done! Now I could make a list. I have to vote relatively soon/early though, the DL being 6 am my time...

[Thinlómien]

Probably got presents this year

Sally - the little she's posted seems actually pretty good. She's reasonable and thinks independently. I'd still like to see more from here to judge better.

Morsul - a bit fishy, I admit, but my gut-feeling says innocent. Far from being my top concern atm.

Nerwen - mostly gut-feeling again, but I don't find her very suspicious. I'd like to hear more from her, though.

Legate - his Boro-suspicion seemed like basic misguided ordo-Legate and today he has a train of thought very similar to my own, which makes me feel good about him. Quite alright for the time being.


The blind spot of my elvish intelligence

Shasta - like Sally, a quiet and independent poster, but he reminds me a little too much of succesful wolf-Shastas to make me feel easy about him.

Eönwë - I like his uncompromising thinking (and his jokes!) and he seems reasonable. Then again, there's something about him - notably him seeming a likely packmate for several people - that doesn't really sit right with me.

Zil - I don't know. He's actually under my radar right now. He hasn't really imporved much since yesterDay - in comparison with the general level of discussion (and again it seems he has RL reasons) - but there are way more suspicious people around right now. I'm keeping an eye on him, I guess.

McCaber - he's a little contradictory and mysterious, and his part in yesterDay's voting doesn't look too good. Then again, his tone is honest, if I'm any judge. Keeping an eye on him too.


Probably didn't get presents this year

Galadriel - flimsy reasonings and weird phrasings, plus she's way too self-conscious. Definitely makes my alarm bells ring.

Coppermirror - I really didn't like that pre-written post (both as an idea and the content). Otherwise, not so bad. Just seems to be off a lot, I wonder if it's confusion or wolvishness.


edit: xed with Zil

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

End-of-Day1 Galadriel gives me a fishy feel. Both for praising my vote as impressive (which it wasn't) and her gut-feelingy suspicions that seem just fabricated. (Also "I haven't changed my gut-feelings"... huh? Does that mean you intentionally change them sometimes???)

Well, you don't change your mind either, if you think about it. Either way, it was referring to the reason behind the vote: whatever you want to think it is, mind or gut, it has not changed.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That does seem pretty suspicious phrasing, I have to say! But it seems to suspicious to be an actual Freudian slip, especially as it's by Morsul.

Wait, what? What did I miss? How's it suspicious? It's just a bit muddled.

Edit: xed with Legate and sally x2

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Well, you don't change your mind either, if you think about it. Either way, it was referring to the reason behind the vote: whatever you want to think it is, mind or gut, it has not changed.

Actually, you can, if you think something over. Meanwhile, gut feelings seem to change by themselves. Or that's how I see it. However, it really isn't the only suspicious thing ou've said these past two Days.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Wait, what? What did I miss? How's it suspicious? It's just a bit muddled.

Might be a language thing, but I think noting that a post looks like you can "jump" on it sounds pretty opportunistic and fishy. As if you were just looking for something you could grasp at.

[Inziladun]

Lommy's suspicion list looks quite a bit like one I would do at this time. Since I already was leaning toward her having an innocent air, that's helpful.

I would put Morsul in the Yellow category though, since I sometimes get the feeling he's trying to pull something.

x/d with Lommy x 2

[Thinlómien]

I'm probably the easiest buddying-up victim in ww history, but Zil agreeing with me and saying I seem innocentish made me feel better about him too.

Anyway

++Galadriel55

Easily the most suspicious person at the moment (which probably should be alarming. Where's the other wolf? And the cobbler?) If you need my reasons, see what I posted earlier toDay.

Now I'm off to bed. Happy remains of Boxing Day (or St. Stephen's, as you would say here) everyone and good night!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Easily the most suspicious person at the moment (which probably should be alarming. Where's the other wolf? And the cobbler?)

Where indeed.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I did a little reread, and I should vote soon - so here a short list...

Sally - I can't honestly make a good judgement of her based on the little I have
Shasta - ditto
G55 - what I said about some "fabricated" feelings from some of her posts, with some having also the "Mrs. Agreeable" feel (although her short exchange with Zil wasn't that "agreeable", so maybe that's not really true anymore, however the fabricated tone remains)
Coppermirror - it's mostly the issue of the "poor Boro and [name]" post for me, though I can see the possibility of an innocent posting that as well, plus now, re-reading her posts a bit, I can see what Nerwen meant by the "little content", there is indeed much more of it than I thought, lot of what Cop says was really just recount of events of yesterDay with not making too many conclusions out of it. More to the point (still speaking of the pre-made post), I am not 100% happy about the easy throwing herself in with the list of other voted-for people (G55 and Zil) and the known innocent Boro. Could be a sort of "self-victimization" (while putting the name of a fellow innocent there), and reminded me of G55's insistance that "it looked like Cop-bandwagon could appear" yesterDay, and made me wonder if there might be a connection between those ideas.
Steve - I would just hope to see him around more. On re-read, I don't seem to recall what seemed so strange to me about his posting earlier. Actually, his posts have been toDay largely only short things, some lists etc. with not much content altogether. Some people said his vote yesterDay could have been a Wolf jumping on a bandwagon, though again, he could have jumped on either of the existing ones by the time he voted, unless he didn't care and/or there was a Wolf being voted for (though since there are only two Wolves, they would not have been both if Steve was one as well). All in all, needs more input, that's about it. But watching.
Morsul - despite his "hasty" vote (which he evidently thought belonged there), I still think he's being an innocent Morsul.
Nerwen - she is actually also one of the players who are not really as vocal or active as I might have expected her to be. But it is certain she brings out some good points in a Nerwen-esque fashion (though only a few). Basically it comes down to my wish that people would post a bit more than just "single-thought posts"...
Zil - ditto, as for toDay, there wasn't really that much. His little exchange with Galadriel was sort of interesting, but not really enough for making any conclusions.
McCaber - what I said, pretty much under my radar (or reindeer, to keep "themed") for the moment
Lommy - her thought processes seem similar to mine Now I wonder if I should be worried, but I can't imagine her mentioning that being e.g. a trick aimed only at me to lull me into trusting her or something similarly unlikely. So only in case you found my dead body toMorrow, then perhaps she should be looked at. On a bit more serious note, I really don't see anything suspicious about her so far, she seems to try to make an effort and not really sounding in any way false or anything.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy's vote and on

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, am I right in my calculations that the DL is supposed to come in something like 6, 7 hours? Does not really make me that happy since very many people haven't still showed up toDay at all, even though of course it is understandable and I am not the one who should complain, given that I also haven't been around. Still, one or two posts from the more obscure people like sally, or even Shasta who showed up basically only to excuse himself (though he promised more thoughts later, so I hope I'll still be around to read them, though I am planning to go to sleep in a couple of hours at most). Well, it is not such a tragedy, given the Ranger-save, technically, we can take this "extended Christmas Day" in some way as an extra-Day, with a lynch traded for a kill.

I am still pretty much wary of G55, who just keeps having the air of something not quite right there, and in some of her latter posts she seemed "agreeable", as if it was intentional way of trying to look like "Mrs. Agreeable". I was hoping for more from Steve, and I still hope he will show up. The same goes for Zil, who is really not very active, though it seems due to being busy. I must say I am pretty much in dark about McCab and actually haven't been thinking about him very much, because basically the only concrete thing about him is his vote for sally, which could've been an "easy vote", but that's about it, and I wouldn't necessarily put it past McCab to vote in such a way also as innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her posting in general shows a bit too much concern with her "appearance".

My own problem with #177 is that it takes such a very long time to make a few, very obvious points that could have been made in a few lines.

Yes, the "appearance" part is definitely there. And that's exactly why I would not expect an innocent to really give it that much thought. Simply put, I think it's rather a Wolf-thing to make show of one's posts and so on, an innocent would most likely edit it and not think about it.

Though of course taking into account also what Cop had said about her earlier gaming style, and also the explanation

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I would actually have had to do more editing than just deleting the name from the sentence there. The surrounding lines would have had to be re-written too ("What a tragedy! I'm terrified" doesn't fit at all when the Ranger's just made a great save, does it? And so forth...), and on the evening of Christmas Eve with a heck of a lot still to do, I was relieved that because of the Ranger-save I could slap an unabridged on my prepared post and go away ASAP without checking through it and making alterations.

It would be a plausible one. Though again it comes back to the question if an innocent would really bother himself with such things. I will have to think about it still.

As for Cop "taking long time to say obvious things", whereas I can see it being a "crime" in the eyes of some (and in a way in mine too, of course it's better to be clear and brief, but..)... it, exactly, isn't a crime by itself. So that wouldn't bother me. In such case, what is important is the content, whether it's long or short.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy and sally

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Might be a language thing, but I think noting that a post looks like you can "jump" on it sounds pretty opportunistic and fishy. As if you were just looking for something you could grasp at.

I think you're really overreaching here. To me it sounds muddled. Not more. If you look at it as a Freudian slip in the literal sense, that would suggest a wolf who all the time thinks of jumping on posts - which is actually not the best tactic for wolves to take as you usually susoect people based on those things. Can't see why jumping on posts would be plaguing a wolf's mind out of all the possibilities. And it's a very odd slip to make. I don't see your reason as a possibility. Moreover, the meaning of that sentence has already been clarified to the point that you would know what Morsul meant.

I don't like how you choose to press this issue. It is just like you did on Day1 - cast a shade of suspicion on someone and add that you don't truly believe in it, as though to distance yourself from it. I don't like it.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

This gal seems just way too self-conscious about what she's posting.

Give me an example of obligatory IC that's not self-conscious.



Now that people are starting to post I'm having trouble keeping up! Yay! Posts!

EDIT: xed since Lommy at 180