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#1 | |||||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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This only would he say, that Imladris was of old the name among the elves of a far norther dale, where Elrond the Halfelven dwelt, greatest of lore-masters." -LOTR Quote:
[QUOTE] I never said that he was baned, I just thought that he was counciled to go to Aman, but I couldnīt find it, so it is probably not canon. But in this quote he doesnīt differ, but still Elrond was among the elves who were welcome to go west.[?QUOTE] Elrond was one of the Half-elven. You seem to miss this fact. How do you think his children were allowed to stay in Middle Earth until he left if the Valar did not wish for him to remain? Quote:
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Rivendell is special, because Elrond dwells there. You simply don't want to see all the evidence indicating Elrond was the greater power. Quote:
"And it is said that Elwing learned the tongue of birds, who herself had once worn their shape; and they taught her the craft of flight, and her wings were of white and silver-grey. And at times, when Eärendil returning drew near again to Arda, she would fly to meet him, even as she had flown long ago, when she was rescued from the sea. Then the far-sighted among the Elves that dwelt in the Lonely Isle would see her like a white bird, shining, rose-stained in the sunset, as she soared in joy to greet the coming of Vingilot to haven." -Silmarillion Just like with Luthien the power comes from her innate strength. Quote:
*[marginal note] All rational minds/spirits deriving direct from Eru are equal-in order and in status-though not necessarily 'coeval' or of like original power.-Morgoth's Ring Quote:
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#2 | ||
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
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#3 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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Look at the quote again. Boromir repeats it, but it does not come from him. It comes from Denethor. A man, who had often used the Palantir was wise and a throw back to the Numenoreans of old. Not only that, but it is something recorded in ancient Gondor history, not the opinion of Boromir the man. |
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#4 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
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Even if it is Denethor who said it, it is still only his opinion and itīs not even clear if Denethor knows Galadriel, if his son thinks that Galadriel is an evil witch. That is Denethors opinion, but not Tolkiens. Itīs the same like Galadriel saying that Celeborn is the wisest elf, that is her opinion but not neccessarily Tolkiens.
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#5 | ||||||||||||
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
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I donīt found anything that indicates that Sauron was in Rivendel. Quote:
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It almost logic that Elrond would be considered the greatest loremaster, he is the most well known, while hardly no one knows Galadriel or has a completely wrong image about her. In this case I canīt take Bormiers/Denethors opinion serious. Had Gandalf said it, then it wold be another matter but that is not the same as the "not even Elrond can fortell! I have no problem accepting it but all the quotes you provided one can interpret differntly, there is no explicit statement, such as "Elrond was the greatest power besides the Maiar in ME" or something like that. Elrond can never be superior to the equal of Feanor, (Galadriel) cause Feanor was the mightiest of the children of Eru (save Luthien). The top 3 of Erus children are definite! Number 2 and 3 are Feanor and Galadriel, number 1 is Luthien. Quote:
Luthien, Feanor and Galadriel are the chief matter of the legends and histories of the elves. Last edited by elbenprincess; 12-17-2012 at 07:53 AM. |
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#6 | ||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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'I will tell you the tale of Tinueviel.... and there are none now except Elrond, that remember it aright as it was told of old. Quote:
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Sauron personally killed Celebrimbor and personally drove Elrond back to Rivendell, where he was unable to break through. Leaving a huge army on your back is awful tactics in war and Sauron only did so, becaue he wanted the Elvish rings to strengthen his position. When the Numenoreans attacked, Sauron himself almost was killed personally. In th letters Tolkien clarifies that Elrond's enchantment is what kept Rivendell safe. Quote:
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You keep brining old quotes, which have been dismissed. Greatest does not mean the mightiest. Elrond is not one of the Noldor or even the Eldar. We have gone full circle now and there is no point continuing. You are bringing up quotes I gave reasons against right at the start of the discussion. Last edited by cellurdur; 12-17-2012 at 11:16 AM. |
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#7 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
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I pretty much aware that Elrond is not one of the Noldor or Eldar, but if Galadriel bestes the likes of Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon and every other elf of Valinor and is on par with Feanor (in many things, not only greatness, but even might) then that says everything or would you claim that Elrond is superiour to all the great Noldor like Fingolfin or on par with Feanor himself, whose only equal it is said is Galadriel? Last edited by elbenprincess; 12-17-2012 at 02:27 PM. |
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#8 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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I figure you are talking about this force that kept Elrond and his people in check at Imladris? Sauron was not with this force which in the end was destroyed with the aid of the Númenóreans after Gil-galad nearly destroyed Sauron. Sauron did not go to destroy Lindon because he could not take on Elrond. The reason he wanted to take Lindon was to get those Rings of Power the Elves were hiding from him. Elrond he could clearly deal with. Elrond was almost destroyed when Sauron destroyed Eregion, but was saved by another force of Dwarves/Elves.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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