An Unexpected Journey, or the morning after

[SonofUgluk]

Thank you boromir88, Lalwende , Guinevere & McCaber , interesting & heartening reviews . I was going to wait until the film came out on dvd , but am now going to go and watch on the big screen as befits an epic film of this magnitude - I missed seeing any of the LOTR films on the big screen and don't want to make the same mistake twice , thanks for your input

[davem]

Don't know. Loved bits - actually loved bits of it far more than the bits of LotR that I loved.

Disliked other bits - & some bits lost me. This was my first 3d film & the glasses didn't help - in fact the 3d didn't help. 3d glasses are a nightmare to keep in place over specs & I was too conscious of the 3d effects - every time something came out of the screen at me I was taken out of the film. At other times I found myself focussing so much on the 3d I stopped following the story.

Anyway. Liked the bits others liked - Erebor & Dale, Bag End & the battle of Azanulbizar. Riddles in the Dark. Lots of it seemed to go on too long & drag in events & characters for not very well explained reasons. Still, all in all I don't feel like I wasted my time or money. Overall fun, exciting & occasionally moving. Not sure how it will stand up to repeated viewings.

Irritating bits, inevitably. And annoying lapses of logic. How come Thorin & the Dwarves can fall about 600 feet in Moria & just get up & walk away, only for him to be knocked senseless a bit later by a couple of thumps from Azog? The Moth/Eagles thing is now very old - even before seeing Gandalf employ it (as we will) at the Battle of Five Armies. In fact, a number of points where I got the feeling that they'd run out of ideas.

I'd say, chill out, go see it expecting nothing, don't be too critical & you'll enjoy lots of it.

Maybe more later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It is very late at night and I just came back from the cinema, but I think it would be difficult to sleep or to contain my thoughts for the following day, so I'll post now. At least I have motivation for once to make my post really short. Well, short for my usual length of "short", that is. But I'll point out only the few things that really caught my eye or mind. Also, I will wait to read the reviews of the rest of you only later when I have time, so it will be certainly uninfluenced analysis

*cough cough* So, let me start. Today (if I count tonight as still "today") has been remarkable for two things. First, Legate of Amon Lanc got educated by a newbie with the post count about 30-something about a thing in the LotR Appendices he has had no idea about for over the larger part of his life (somewhere here if you care). Secondly, Legate of Amon Lanc, who, among other things, is the author of this or this, has seen the Hobbit and liked it. Yeah. Stop beating your computer screen, what you are reading is not a visual error. If I am to say a simple statement, I say: I liked it.

Now, for a few highlights or "lowlights". What comes immediately to my mind is:

Handling the book's original plot: Well done. Nothing misses, nothing is twisted (and not even twisted beyond recognition, but nothing is twisted at all, except for the basic filmmaking license).

Adding the Dol Guldur subplot: That is weaker, but given what PJ operates with, again, it's a movie. And movie is for people who haven't read the books. And, let's be honest here, there are many among the book readers who do not even care about the "background" stuff beyond the frame of LotR and The Hobbit. So whether I go on explaining when was the White Council formed, when did they learn about Sauron, what did they do and so on - here we have the whole "Mirkwood is darkening" subplot squished into and ultimately, the outcome is the same, and fine by me. Of course, concerns might be regarding the Nazgul rubbish, but then again, if it serves to introduce "the Necromancer"... speaking of that, I really like the way the movie (or Saruman ) explained it. "A human wizard tampering with black magic, nothing more" = perfect. For some reason I loved this way of diminishing the threat. Also, the "shadow in the box" aka Necromancer actually looked quite good, much much better than the idiotic power plant we all know from LotR.

Bilbo and Gandalf: Handled perfectly, I see no problem. I still don't understand why the Uncloaking of Gandalf has to look so bad and ridiculous, the same way it did in LotR where it evidently did not work (it seemed as if Gandalf got some fit), but PJ is apparently of different opinion.

Dwarves: No objection. Very nice, very nice focus on some main ones (Balin, Dwalin, Fili, Kili, and gradually a couple of others), from the initial introduction throughout the story. And of course, Thorin. It was one thing I thought I might like, and it turned out that way. He remains a consistent character - except for the one unfortunate point in the mountains where he all of a sudden tells Bilbo he should not have been there (after they are falling down from the stone giants - it comes totally out of the blue). Since the start, there was this picture of him smiting the red iron on the anvil - totally reminded me of his important feature as mentioned in the appendices ("great anger burned in him as he smote the red iron on the anvil...") - not sure if PJ intended that, but if I wanted to mention a sentence in the book put 100% perfectly into a movie, this was one such example. All in all, praise, praise, praise to Thorin.

Trolls: So happy they didn't make them just ugly turtles and kept the whole thing basically almost unchanged (as much as you can in a film).

The Great Goblin: His voice almost lifted me from my seat at first. Aside from that, granted, 99% of his role is incredibly weak. But it was a nice impression.

Radagast: He was not as horrible as I feared. He was nuts and degraded into this poor senile being, but it was nice. Acceptable in the terms of movie license, I'd say.

The White Council: YES, YES and YES. That was the best, the coolest moment of the whole movie, slowly looming from the moment Elrond told Gandalf that he has something to explain... Wonderfully handled scene. Saruman. Was. Cool. And Galadriel too. When she appeared first and when she was talking (especially the mind-talking with Gandalf!!! Great one), she was great. However when she roamed around as they probably instructed her to do, she looked like a doll without strings and really made me think of "the marketing needs a pretty woman to pose, please". If you ask me, she was beautiful when she appeared and acted, not when she was standing in the background or roaming around with no purpose. That looked ridiculous. But close your eyes to that and you have the best scene of the whole movie. For me it really was.

- Gollum part of the plot handled well. Well except for Gollum, but that's the question of the design of the creature (I don't like it). I also like how the Ring's invisibility effect does not yet have the "corrupt feel" to it. Also, the idea of "mercy is the point" shown and conveyed well, I'd say.

Okay, minuses:

- Too unnecessarily prolongated action scenes. Be it fighting or running from place X to Y while doing ridiculous stunts... I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. PJ could have made it into, if not one, then certainly two two-hour movies if he left out all the action rubbish except in places where it is relevant/important. Speaking of length, I had the feeling just after they left Rivendell that the movie could have ended just about there and I'd be happy. I don't know at what mark that event is, but I think if they had cut the unnecessary things, it might have worked around that timestamp.

- Too many unrealistic stunt-scenes. I just realised that's what really I dislike the most. I really could not bear the escape from Goblin-town. Swinging whole platforms and all that while throwing the goblins overboard... horrible. Nothing against Ice Age, but that is an animated movie. Such things really are not supposed to happen in movies with real actors, sorry.

- Absolutely unnecessary Azog subplot. The story as narrated by Balin was nice, but a) Azog is ugly (he's supposed to be mail-clad), b) I've had enough of idiotic wannabe-creepy grins of PJ's orcs into the camera for half an age, c) using Azog to introduce wargs was nice, but the fight against him in the end was unnecessary. Thorin was absolutely cool when he rose from the fire like a phoenix to meet his nemesis, that was perfect, but after that? Got kicked and it served no purpose whatsoever except to prolongate the movie with another few minutes.

- The Transformers. Seriously. The worst thing ever. I was happy to hear they put the Stone giants in. When I saw them... The Transformers. *facepalm*

- The songs. I loved the Dwarven song, as sung by the Dwarves in the deep voices (NOT as sung by whoever it was during the end credits. The deep voices made it cool, the end credit-singer didn't), but what the heck was the plate song? So bad. Totally unimaginative tune. IT HAD THE SAME TUNE AS THE ALREADY UNIMAGINATIVE TUNES IN LOTR WHICH PIPPINS AND CO. ARE SINGING IN THEIR PUBS!!! Likewise, there was some goblin-song, right? I don't even remember it, it was also bad. And if there was anything in between, it was probably bad as well.

Summa summarum:
Best moments: The start in the Shire, the White Council.
Worst moments: The Transformers, escape from Goblin-town.
General verdict: Give me scissors, I'd cut several scenes and make a very good movie of suitable length which will be fun to watch.
I would not necessarily watch this again for all that money I paid for the ticket, in fact, I'd have paid half for even the original one if I could choose. But as a movie, at home, with a couple of people, I'd watch it again without any objection.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Of course I could not have resisted and, after all, read the posts on this thread anyway before going to sleep.

My comment, and concern, is only one.

Am I the one who liked the movie the most from the people who have posted on this thread? (Or, on about the same wavelength as Lalwendë.)

That is probably the scariest thing that has happened to me for some time.

[davem]

I think most people (even the most hard line fan of the books) will find a lot to like in the film. Its fun for the most part, captures much of the mood of the story & expands the (movie) universe nicely. I suppose the question is would you rather have these films or no films? Would you have missed out on the whole movie experience (not just the films & the tie-ins, but the whole community experience which they have fostered) would this site & its community even exist if not for the films?

So, certainly annoying in parts but to actually see Bag End, Moria, Minas Tirith, Erebor.... to encounter those characters in the (digital) flesh, well..... I think you'd have to be very churlish & ungrateful to wish they hadn't happened at all. There are some very annoying things, some points where Jackson seems to have let the technology run wild & also to have failed to rein in his imagination. I agree that the stone giants episode went too far - a glimpse would have been more powerfully evocative. Plus it was yet another point at which the characters, if real physical beings, would have simply died. Jackson seems to have no understanding of the effect of physical force (or fire!) on bodies. I don't care that Dwarves are physically stronger than humans, they wouldn't have survived that - & certainly Bilbo wouldn't.

Of course the book moves from childish innocence & silliness to adult, worldly-wise, seriousness, but Tolkien doesn't jerk back & forth between the two, & that's a major issue for me with the film which jumps from Tom & Jerry to The Silmarillion & back without any warning. When it works its brilliant, when it doesn't work it really, really doesn't.

Again, I think we''ll have to reserve full judgement till we can watch the whole thing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by davem

So, certainly annoying in parts but to actually see Bag End, Moria, Minas Tirith, Erebor.... to encounter those characters in the (digital) flesh, well..... I think you'd have to be very churlish & ungrateful to wish they hadn't happened at all.

Actually, that is about the last thing I like about the movies. I did not need to see a portrayal of Bag End or Moria which are fundamentally different from how I imagine them and thus disrupt my imagination of them. I am a very "landscape-visual-type" person. In fact, I would possibly say that I would have preferred not to see a movie adaptation, if we put the stress on the word "adaptation". But it is a nice movie. I would be equally happy to watch any other movie which I would find likeable. However, I guess here comes the dimension of, perhaps, curiosity, or evaluation from the point of view of a fan, who can say "okay, this was handled well" and "okay, this was handled interestingly" (and, of course, "this was screwed up"). And as for the dimension of introducing new fans, of course, that's no debate.

There are some very annoying things, some points where Jackson seems to have let the technology run wild & also to have failed to rein in his imagination. I agree that the stone giants episode went too far - a glimpse would have been more powerfully evocative. Plus it was yet another point at which the characters, if real physical beings, would have simply died. Jackson seems to have no understanding of the effect of physical force (or fire!) on bodies. I don't care that Dwarves are physically stronger than humans, they wouldn't have survived that - & certainly Bilbo wouldn't.

Absolutely. That is what basically annoyed me the most especially this time (in LotR, it was present too, but I think less - the one thing I can think of was the "balancing on falling stairs" part in Moria, aside from Legolas stunts etc.).

Again, I think we''ll have to reserve full judgement till we can watch the whole thing.

When returning from the cinema, we met a guy who asked us about the movie and asked if it isn't annoying to have to wait for the following movies. That's when I realised: I don't care. For me, the movie is finished, and how I rate the rest, is a different thing. For the moment. Of course, once all the movies are out, I can rate them all together. But I can also rate them separately, and evaluate them separately, and have no problem with that. For example, I am able to tell you that Two Towers was easily one of the worst movies ever, while Fellowship was still quite nice.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Legate

Absolutely. That is what basically annoyed me the most especially this time (in LotR, it was present too, but I think less - the one thing I can think of was the "balancing on falling stairs" part in Moria, aside from Legolas stunts etc.).

I can think of a few points in LotR - Boromir hurled a good 20 feet across the Chamber of Mazarbul into a stone wall & then getting up & shaking his head & getting straight back into the fight, Frodo falling the equivalent of 20 feet from the the Seat of Seeing onto his back & not even being winded, Aragorn's fall over the cliff & Denethor's infamous 3 mile human torch sprint ... I don't think Jackson gets that if you do that with your characters you can't then suddenly switch to giving them normal physical vulnerability in the next scene & expect the audience to believe it. When Thorin was beaten unconscious at the end I was convinced, after all he'd been through without even being fazed, that he was faking it - & that actually spoiled the impact of the scene as I was expecting him to jump up & behead Azog any second.


.

For example, I am able to tell you that Two Towers was easily one of the worst movies ever, while Fellowship was still quite nice.

I can watch Fellowship as a stand alone film, but not either of the others, but I can (only done this once btw) watch all of them back to back - I suspect this is because Fellowship provides the necessary momentum....

John D Rateliff (author of History of the Hobbit) gives his thoughts http://sacnoths.blogspot.co.uk/ I pretty much agree with his points when it comes to his likes.

As to the 3D - again, I just didn't see the point of it. It was well done but I don't think it would have been missed. I read recently that Jackson has decided against converting LotR into 3D. I'd like to see it again in 2D now I know what's coming. I'll save my review proper for then.