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#1 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#2 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 257
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If we judge by how it performed in the chapter of 'The Voice of Saruman' it would have ideally been used after Beren tells his servants to leave so that Saruman's alone with him. He wasn't 'good' then, he'd already said no to an assault on Dol Guldor and if you check the timeline at the back of TLotR he had already searched the Gladden Fields, etc. Probably already obtained the Ellendil Star from Isildur's body. As well as at least got to the point of spying on the Shire. We don't know whether Beren saw the White Council as allies. Presumably Beren could speak Elvish, like all from the Numenorian line on Middle-earth. So it's logical either Beren voluntarily gave him the keys to Orthanc & Minas Tirith archives or he coerced him when the opportunity came.
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Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia |
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#3 | ||||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Of course it is, I said it's my personal point of view. But it's based on what we know about Saruman. He was still not corrupted by the thought about the Ring at that time, and for instance we know he still, for some time, had been discussing with Treebeard rather politely (asking him permissions if he could visit Fangorn at all and so on). He certainly would have wanted to have a base (since it was "cool" and gave him some more authority), but I think he would still be reluctant to "perform mind tricks" (see above my explanation of what I do and what I don't mean by him using his Voice), and, most of all, he would not even need to perform them.
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Another account of this is also in the part about the kings of Rohan: Quote:
There is another sentence in the following text, saying that Saruman "seemed to be a friend for long, and in the beginning he maybe was one in truth". The "maybe", true, makes it sound a little doubtful, but I think there is no need to think that he wasn't. (I mean, there is no "maybe" in the objective way of thinking; the "maybe" is merely the chronicler's note: but in the end, either Saruman was a friend, or wasn't. And I daresay he was, but what is even clearer is that there had been no doubt about him being a friend in the eyes of the Free Peoples - whether he truly had been one or not. In any case, you would not call him "maybe a friend" if he had been walking around mind-controlling people into giving him a fortress.)
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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