What lies beyond?

Hello all. I am new to this forum and look forward to staying here as long as i can. Being that Men usually live around the 90 mark. (If theyre lucky).

Anyway, here i am, looking at the map of middle earth, but both my imagination and curiousity wonder what lies past Mordor to the East. I have always wondered, and this has probably come up before, but what actually lies further East of Mordor?

[LadyElbereth]

Welcome to the Downs!I've been wondering the same thing so I can't really give you an answer.
However, In the Hobbit, Bilbo says...
"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

So maybe the Last Desert is what lies east of Mordor. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Legolas]

Actually, we know very little of what lies East of Mordor (as did Tolkien himself).

Saruman and the Blue Wizards (Alatar and Pallando) ventured into the East. Saruman returned of course, but Alatar and Pallando remained. What were they doing out there? We have no idea.

We do know of the land Cuiviénen were the elves woke in the Years of the Trees, and of the sea Helcar that land surrounds, though we're not sure either are still there.

From The Silmarillion:

In the changes of the world the shapes of lands and of seas have been broken and remade; rivers have not kept their courses, neither have mountains remained steadfast; and to Cuiviénen there is no returning. But it is said among the Elves that it lay far off in the east of Middle-earth, and northward, and it was a bay in the Inland Sea of Helcar; and that sea stood where aforetime the roots of the mountain of Illuin had been before Melkor overthrew it Many waters flowed down thither from heights in the east, and the first sound that was heard by the Elves was the sound of water flowing, and the sound of water falling over stone.

Also in the east was the land Hildórien. Hildórien is where the first men awoke.

There is also the land of Rhûn, where there is also the Sea of Rhûn, and a mountain range called the Orocarni.

Gondor was attacked by the men of Rhûn, and these men (Easterlings) were allied with Sauron in the War of the Ring.

Oromë, the Vala, rode upon his horse Nahar into the east as he was very interested in those lands (as he was in all the lands of Middle-earth). It was he who found the elves.

And on a time it chanced that Oromë rode eastward in his hunting, and he turned north by the shores of Helcar and passed under the shadows of the Orocarni, the Mountains of the East. Then on a sudden Nahar set up a great neighing, and stood still. And Oromë wondered and sat silent, and it seemed to him that in the quiet of the land under the stars he heard afar off many voices singing.

[LePetitChoux]

Oh, so when I post the same topic I get no coherent replies, and when Etharius here comes along, this question is suddenly taken care of? Well humph! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Seriously though, look here for my views on this topic.


Welcome to the 'Downs. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: LePetitChoux ]

Looks like we only have vague ideas of what lies in the far east. It is for this same reason why i have been conjuring it up for myself. As a method for excersising my imagination and of course cos its just so fun.

Anyway, if youre interested in reading about what "I" think lies east, here it is.

But for the sake of Webspace ill keep it brief. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Far East of the land we call Middle Earth, infact long ago before the First Age, there dwelt a tribe of creatures called Elves in the plains and the hills that surrounded them. These plains were fertile in the warmer seasons, but were known to become challengengly bitter in the Colder Seasons. The tribe of Elves initially enjoyed dwelling in the plains and there they developed a language and formed as a strong prosperous community.
At the same time though, West to the plains there lived the Ancient and Ledgendary Hill Giants, which the Elves as they remained a tribe, stayed away from.
As time aged on, and the tribe grew, the Elves began to communicate with the giants and were also seen settling in the Western Giant Hills, as well as moving North of the Plains towards the giant peaks of what they called, the White Mountains.
This succession of settling allowed the Elves to develop highly complex ways of living and they soon found themselves separated as three different Province Dwellers. The largest population enjoyed the plains and loved it for its fertility and colour, wheras the Second largest, enticed by the mystery of the Giants to the West, decided they where to live at the Foothills of the giants where they forever studied them and learned from them. The third and least largest band, roamed in the many scattered forests due North, but eventually gathered with time and took to the White Mountains.
Over time the Elves became very much settled in theyre provinces. The Western Hill Elves were known to have formed a friendship with the Giants, wheras the Elves of the White Mountains, formed a great community omong the Peaks and some were even known to have began settling in the smaller forests at the Foothills of the Mountains.
While the Western and Northern Elves showed signs of thriving and happiness, the Plain Dwellers were experiencing problems. Over time, although their population was large and known for its ability to pull through the Bitter Winters, the people started to diminish. The land grew darker, the green grass was turning sharper and blacker, and their beloved crops began to show unnatural signs weakness and pain.
For many years they consulted with their brother provinces, seeking wisdom and answers. But their journeys proved fruit-less. After all, the Northern and Western Elves were a relalively new people, and they had only just formed their own civilisation in their respective cities.
As time carried forward, sorrow grew for the safety of the Plain Dwellers, they grew frightened of the south lands and what lied further beyond the southern Wood Scatterings. Their population fell to lowest and as the famous Bitter Winters approached they decided to form group when the Warm Seasons would come. This band was decided to act as a protector for the Plains very much like what Middle Earth people had at the time called Armies.
Although this measure seemed minimal, it gave spirit to the Plain Elves, and so slept through the winter, ever anxious for the coming of the Warm Season, so that they would venture toward their fear with this Army concept.
The sun rose high, and the Elves of the North began to wake, so did the West. But when they did, they felt a feeling like no other in their immortal lives. The feeling of Blackness, Pain and Sorrow was among them all though the cause was not immediately noticed. As they began to send messengers on Horses to gather news of the Army, they learned of the purpose of their feelings. They understood the Blackness, had smelt the Sorrow and seen the Pain as they hasted south to the Plains.
Their brother province. The Plain Dwellers, had been slaughtered. The population, small as it was, was slain from the face of the earth. More messengers were sent from the Hills and the White Mountains, as the first had died of Sorrow. But when the news finally arrived to the Two Cities, such an event petrified the entire race into grief.
The Western Elves sent Bands to recover those who had hidden or perhaps survived. But there was no such luck. The White Mountain Elves sent Horse Riders to recover information of the cause of the Black Winter. Though they recovered a few strange weapons and reported the bodies of strange black beings slain by their brothers, this did not relieve the Pain from the remaining provinces.
Though one artefact, one single document was recovered which indicated what the Elves were to do. The document was made by the Elf Lord of the Plains whos name has vanished in the past, and was a drawing of their plans to constuct a mighty wall that would have separated their fears from the South.
The wall was collossal. It reached the Scattered Western Forests under the Hill of the Giants, and finished far east under the Great Eastern Forest.
The document was retained and preserved by the White Mountain Elves with the intention of implementing it, once the shadow left the plains.
-------------------------------------------

That is all the energy i have for the time being. Though i can tell you it is simply the begginning. If you wish to read more, simply say so, and over time, i will send more of my story.

[Manwe Sulimo]

I don't think fan fiction goes in the forum....

I don't think that the region was actually properly called "Rhûn", Legalos. That was just the word for "East", and used to refer to anything east of Rhovanion and north of Khand. Likewise, the Sea of Rhûn was just "The Eastern Sea".

Manwe Sulimo: Posted:

I don't think fan fiction goes in the forum....

(Why not?)

[Legolas]

Manwe, it is what we properly call Rhûn.

Aragorn to Boromir:

I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far countries of Rhûn and Harad where the stars are strange.

Denethor to Pippin:

And in my turn I bore it, and so did each eldest son of our house, far back into the vanished years before the failing of the kings, since Vorondil father of Mardil hunted the wild kine of Araw in the far fields of Rhûn.

In 'The Field of Cormallen' chapter:

But the Men of Rhûn and of Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West.

From Appendix A, I - The Númenorean Kings, iv - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion

In his day Gondor reached the summit of its power. The realm then extended north to Celebrant and the southern eaves of Mirkwood; west to the Greyflood; east to the inland Sea of Rhûn; south to the River Harnen, and thence along the coast to the peninsula and haven of Umbar.

From Appendix A, II - The House of Eorl

And wherever King Elessar went with war King Éomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhûn and on the far fields of the South the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Éomer grew old.

It literally means 'east,' but yes, it is the proper name. Names do usually mean things about their bearers' nature. Mithrandir means ' Grey Wanderer,' but it is still his name. Ulmo means 'He Who Pours' but it is still his name. Not until (relatively) recently in the western world has it become popular to give names without giving consideration to the meaning behind them.

You guys seem to have a way of knowing what these names mean after translation. How do u figure them out? Is there some translator somewhere online that you use?

[Yavanna Kementari]

Hullo!! Welcome to the Barrow Downs forums!!
If you would like to know your real name let me know what it is and I can translate it for you! Oh sorry I am Yavanna Kementari a Valier. I am Queen of the Earth. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I'll do what I can to help you get familiarized with things. I myself havenot been here long but I catch on fast [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Enjoy your stay, hope to see you at the chat!
~Yavanna