New interview with Christopher Tolkien - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 10-03-2012, 10:46 AM

"Westron nowhere appears in the book (save a couple of "actual" hobbit-names presented in App F”? Tolkien first mentions Westron in his Prologue where he writes:
And in those days also they forgot whatever languages they had used before, and spoke ever after the Common Speech, the Westron as it was named, …
It appears at various other places in the Appendices other than the place you mention. I agree that Westron or the Common Speech “is feigned to have been turned into English”.

What I was saying was that examples of actual Westron nowhere appear but in those names, not mentions of the Common Speech or Westron as a language.

jallanite · 10-03-2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

What I was saying was that examples of actual Westron nowhere appear but in those names, not mentions of the Common Speech or Westron as a language.

That is NOT what you said.

jallanite · 10-16-2013, 05:45 PM

Looking through some other Tolkien websites I found a post by Áhann Áhim posting under the name Mandos at http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread....%28as-Bifur%29 , post #6, which comments on Tolkien’s pronunciation of Thengel. Áhann posts in part:

I just listened to Tolkien's reading of part of 'The Ride of the Rohirrim' (J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection, CD 2), where he does in fact pronounce Théoden's father as /þengel/. I'm unclear if this is a learned choice about Mercian Old English (if so, it goes against what his pupil, Alistair Campbell, wrote in his grammar, and against the standard view of most scholars before and since), or if Tolkien just aesthetically preferred that pronunciation, and so used it - since, after all, the Rohirrim aren't literally Anglo-Saxons, and he was therefore free to alter such details to his liking.

So seemingly Christopher Tolkien’s pronunciation is indeed the standard one and J. R. R. Tolkien’s is non-standard.

10-03-2012, 10:46 AM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	"Westron nowhere appears in the book (save a couple of "actual" hobbit-names presented in App F”? Tolkien first mentions Westron in his Prologue where he writes: And in those days also they forgot whatever languages they had used before, and spoke ever after the Common Speech, the Westron as it was named, … It appears at various other places in the Appendices other than the place you mention. I agree that Westron or the Common Speech “is feigned to have been turned into English”. What I was saying was that examples of actual Westron nowhere appear but in those names, not mentions of the Common Speech or Westron as a language. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

10-16-2013, 05:45 PM	#3
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	Looking through some other Tolkien websites I found a post by Áhann Áhim posting under the name Mandos at http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread....%28as-Bifur%29 , post #6, which comments on Tolkien’s pronunciation of Thengel. Áhann posts in part: I just listened to Tolkien's reading of part of 'The Ride of the Rohirrim' (J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection, CD 2), where he does in fact pronounce Théoden's father as /þengel/. I'm unclear if this is a learned choice about Mercian Old English (if so, it goes against what his pupil, Alistair Campbell, wrote in his grammar, and against the standard view of most scholars before and since), or if Tolkien just aesthetically preferred that pronunciation, and so used it - since, after all, the Rohirrim aren't literally Anglo-Saxons, and he was therefore free to alter such details to his liking. So seemingly Christopher Tolkien’s pronunciation is indeed the standard one and J. R. R. Tolkien’s is non-standard.