Taters to Taters

[Gwathagor]

Black Numenorean Cat Lady. That's all I'm going to say.

[Meneltarmacil]

I'm pretty sure Sauron and the Silmarils are more dangerous than the Misty Mountains.

Between Sauron and the Silmarils, though, I'd go with Sauron. The Silmarils will only harm you if you're evil, at least if I remember correctly. Sauron, on the other hand, tends to be just as dangerous an ally as he is an enemy.

I think Sauron is the clear choice here.

[the phantom]

Nog- Well sure if we go strictly by the word "fortified" then places become better options, but the word is "dangerous", not "fortified". Let's not get side-tracked on what is by far the least synonymous of the secondary words offered.

(Unless you are particularly wishing to, in which case I can let it drag out longer.)

Besides, Sauron still trumps Barad-Dur and Minas Morgul because they are only dangerous because of him. When Sauron perishes, so perishes the foundations of Barad-Dur, so that one is quite plain. And Minas Morgul is only named so (rather than Minas Ithil) thanks to Sauron's ownership, so again that seems plain.

And the House of Ransom would likely prove a dangerous place to go during the years of Turin's stay, but no one ever did go there because the way was not known. And never mind the countless years before that when no one went there. When unwelcome guests finally did show up, they showed up in force and slaughtered the folk there, so it only proved dangerous to the dwellers, and only that one time. Where as the Misty Mts were frequently traversed and often with disastrous results (wolves, orcs, weather, etc.). So quantitatively it's proven more dangerous.

I don't particularly want to toss palantirs so early, but I can't help it next to Silmarils. Not only do they scorch anything that isn't pure, but the wreaked such terrible damage in the world (Morgoth's lust for them drove him, Feanor guarded them so jealously, the Valar's request for them pushed Feanor over the brink, Beren & Luthien's adventure, Carcharoth, Feanor's sons destroying Doriath & the sea-side colony, etc.

And then there's obviously Sauron- the largest destructive force in the world during the second and third ages, and one of the tops of the first. I mean- he's the one that created/finished orcs and trolls, and look at the many results of that. Plus werewolves at Tol-In-Gaurhoth of course, and slaughtering Elves and Men in the second age halted only by Numenor- which he eventually destroyed through trickery. And need we recap the War of the Ring?

Sauron and the Silmarils seem to be in their own category. One simply wants nothing to do with them, and survival rate isn't high when one gets in close proximity... and Misty is sort of my heart's fond choice (memories from imagining them first time reading Hobbit & LotR).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by tp

Nog- Well sure if we go strictly by the word "fortified" then places become better options, but the word is "dangerous", not "fortified". Let's not get side-tracked on what is by far the least synonymous of the secondary words offered.

All the taters are dangerous. Ditto, let's look at the other descriptions to help.

I mean if there was only one dangerous thing, two threatening ones and five fortified I'd say let's pick the dangerous one as that is the main word. But these all are dangerous - so we need other factors in!

You don't seem to get the idea with the House of Ransom (or you pretend not to for some reason ). It is not Amon Rûdh we're talking about here. That is a hill standing there for ages until it was swept under the sea (like Misty Mountains are just a mountain range standing there). But to be the "House of Ransom" is referring to a certain story; death, tragedy, threat, danger, hazard, fortified...

I mean if you had more specific places with a story and real impact like Moria, Caradhras, or Carn Dûm or something you could make a case... but Misty Mountains as such? A pile of rocks...

Also the Silmarils. They were bad for Fëanor and his tribe after the vow Fëanor made. But that's it. Quite limited danger there: only dangerous to the baddies, in a way.

And Sauron then? He's dangerous, threatening, hazardous even... yes he is (there are better candidates for "fortified" whatever you say). But choosing him would be as unimaginative as picking Morgoth had he been available. Or like choosing Pronghorn antelope as the "fast" when the Cheetah was not available. Dull...

[Galadriel55]

Personally, I think Silmarils trump Bar-en-Danwedh. Who was the latter dangerous for? It was certainly a significant part of a story with lots of danger in it, but was it actually dangerous on its own? There were 52 men living in it. One of them was dangerous. But his "innate" danger does not make his house dangerous (as Barad-dur is not dangerous simply because Sauron resides there).

The Silmarili, on the other hand, posess the danger themselves. They are not only dangerous to hose who try to touch them without a right to do so. They pretty much hold the fate of Arda. They have a great power inside of them. They are more than just shiny rocks. I would say that they are even more dangerous than the One Ring. They also have a will of their own, and that will, I would say, is much stronger than the Ring's. For one thing, the Ring's power is limited to what Sauron put in it. The Silmarils hold the fate of all the world, Sauron included. Then, if you consider it, a continent was sunk and almost all its population was destroyed because of -you name it - Silmarils! We know less about them than the Ring, but it doesn't mean they aren't powerful and dangerous.

So if you think the Ring is dangerous (and who wouldn't, duh, that's what LOTR is about, right?) I say the Silmarilii are even more so.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Personally, I think Silmarils trump Bar-en-Danwedh. Who was the latter dangerous for? It was certainly a significant part of a story with lots of danger in it, but was it actually dangerous on its own? There were 52 men living in it. One of them was dangerous. But his "innate" danger does not make his house dangerous (as Barad-dur is not dangerous simply because Sauron resides there).

As I said earlier, the tater is not Bar-en-Danwedh or Amon Rûdh but "the House of Ransom". It is not a concept naming a physicl thing in the ME (a hill) but a poetic concept becoming a symbol of danger, threat, hazard...

If you face Sauron or Gothmog in a battle it is terror and death you face. If you are Túrin or one of his followers you meet with danger, threat and hazard - and it is there all the time around you and you never know when or how something's gonna happen - unlike with the pure onslaught of an enemy who is openly attacking you or trying to destroy you.

And Mîm did eventually betray them making that threat real and deadly thus earning the symbolic value the House of Ransom carries with it.

Ransom is something that is claimed and they all knew it would be - none just knew how it would happen - the cliffhanger then!