Rings of Power talk!

[jallanite]

The quotation Puddleglum correctly attributes to me applies to the period when Puddleglum’s explanation was unlikely to have happened, just before the final separation of Galadriel and Celeborn and their followers from Frodo and his party when from what we are told none of the three bearers of Elvish rings then bore them openly, though Galadriel produced a glow from her ring from a distance.

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

My personal belief is that he "did" know. But that's only because he had become professionally aware of Rings (as a ring-bearer and having seen one of the rings earlier) and so would be more likely than most people (like Merry or Pippin) to "connect the dots" and conclude that "that Blue stoned ring on Elrond's hand may well be one of the Three", etc.

Frodo is shown at the end of the Lord of the Rings to have learned much information whose source is not given: the exact date that Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf and Bilbo will be passing through the Shire, and that Frodo may join them in their journey to the west if he wishes, and that the same opportunity will eventually be given to Sam.

I see no sign that Frodo knows at the point where Galadriel departs that Elrond and Gandalf also bore rings. Possibly he is merely being discrete in not including what was then a secret in the Red Book. Possibly Frodo later learned it from whatever sources informed him of the exact time when Bilbo, Galadriel, and Elrond would be passing through the Shire on their way to the west, and that he might go with them if he wished, and that to Sam also the same choice would be given eventually. Possibly Frodo learned of the disposition of the Three Elven-rings from Elrond or Galadriel or Bilbo on his journey west.

Originally Posted by blantyr

You know, with 20 20 hindsight, who else could have had the three rings?

With 20 20 hindsight, of course the right answer would emerge. But the story as told allows the possibility that Cirdan, Glorfindel, or Celeborn might have been bearers of Elven-rings. Or possibly some other elves of whom we have not been told. Note that we are only told the last of the Elven-rings bore a red stone and was a ring of fire at the same time that we are told that Gandalf had born it.

[Radtech51]

Originally Posted by jallanite

The quotation Puddleglum correctly attributes to me applies to the period when Puddleglum’s explanation was unlikely to have happened, just before the final separation of Galadriel and Celeborn and their followers from Frodo and his party when from what we are told none of the three bearers of Elvish rings then bore them openly, though Galadriel produced a glow from her ring from a distance.



Frodo is shown at the end of the Lord of the Rings to have learned much information whose source is not given: the exact date that Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf and Bilbo will be passing through the Shire, and that Frodo may join them in their journey to the west if he wishes, and that the same opportunity will eventually be given to Sam.

I see no sign that Frodo knows at the point where Galadriel departs that Elrond and Gandalf also bore rings. Possibly he is merely being discrete in not including what was then a secret in the Red Book. Possibly Frodo later learned it from whatever sources informed him of the exact time when Bilbo, Galadriel, and Elrond would be passing through the Shire on their way to the west, and that he might go with them if he wished, and that to Sam also the same choice would be given eventually. Possibly Frodo learned of the disposition of the Three Elven-rings from Elrond or Galadriel or Bilbo on his journey west.



With 20 20 hindsight, of course the right answer would emerge. But the story as told allows the possibility that Cirdan, Glorfindel, or Celeborn might have been bearers of Elven-rings. Or possibly some other elves of whom we have not been told. Note that we are only told the last of the Elven-rings bore a red stone and was a ring of fire at the same time that we are told that Gandalf had born it.

I thought of another way one could interpret this ending. It could be that the three rings of power were no longer needed to be hidden or kept as a secret especially now that they're about to be taken away forever from middle earth? Perhaps they all wielded them openly now in the end to symbolize the point of no more fear or secrets concerning the rings of power and that this time the war of the rings has come to an end?

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by jallanite

The quotation Puddleglum correctly attributes to me applies to the period when Puddleglum’s explanation was unlikely to have happened, just before the final separation of Galadriel and Celeborn and their followers from Frodo and his party when from what we are told none of the three bearers of Elvish rings then bore them openly, though Galadriel produced a glow from her ring from a distance.

But the text DOESN'T tell us that at that time.

Except for the statement of Galadriel's farewell flash, the text at this time doesn't tell us ANYTHING about whether the rings were worn on hands, were visible or invisible, were locked in luggage or attached to chains of flashing, multi-colored lights (ok, I'm being silly with that last option). Since the text doesn't tell us, we don't know - we can only speculate.

We know that prior to the destruction of the One they were not worn openly - but as Galadriel wore hers in Lorien without Sam realizing she even HAD a ring this "not worn openly" doesn't necessarily mean "not worn".

But we don't explicitly know whether, AFTER destruction of the One, they continued to "not wear openly", or whether it was now a moot point and they "could" wear them openly.

Either are fair speculations. My only objection was what appeared to be an absolute statement that Frodo "WAS unaware" about Elrond & Galadriel.

He "might" have been unaware, or he "might" have known by then. After all, he spent a lot of time with Gandalf in Minas Tirith from mid-April to MidSummer (Unfinished Tales tells us they shared a house), and he reasonably could also have spent time with Elrond as well.

My "explaination" (or reason for why I thought what I did) was based upon

• Frodo's long, intimate connection with Rings of Power - which predated the flash from Galadriel's ring at the parting.
• Frodo's having spent time with Gandalf in Minas Tirith (and having at least the opportunity to spend time with Elrond there as well) - which also predates the parting flash from Galadriel.

So, while my speculation may be either right or wrong, I do think it is predicated upon conditions as they were at the time referenced (the parting near Moria).