Itaril

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

"TMT went beyond good natured, insightful disagreement and personally, I thought it appallingly distasteful." -- Boromir88

Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment.

Frankly, I do not remember directing any unkind or unfair remarks to any other poster in this forum. In fact, I don't think I have "disagreed" with almost anyone here. I have expressed my own opinion and directed my remarks -- in the clearest and most literary way I know how -- distinctly at what I consider a truly lousy idea. And I don't write for children.

Now, if you feel inclined to take umbrage at my manner of expressing myself, then I can't do anything about that. As the Buddha said: You can't give offense to anyone unwilling to take it. Take as little or as much as you like. I have never seen your published standards for forum discussion and I certainly haven't agreed to abide by them. I write what I wish to say. Others can take that or leave that, just as I take or leave what they have to say. I never take offense because I won't allow anyone else to give me any.

Personally, I spent too many years in the United States military and too many of those years in the now-defunct Republic of South Vietnam because the majority of my countrymen thought it impolite and distasteful to bluntly question official stupidity when they had the chance to do something about it. And I lived long enough to see the whole sorry, rats-*** "war" wagon get rolling again for another decade of mindless mayhem and near national bankruptcy. By this late date, few persons in my country seem the slightest bit interested in sanity, so sheepishly accustomed to the criminally insane have they become. You can only stop a war or the erosion of civil liberties before the process starts, not once it gets going.

I feel the same about these films. I don't want to see cheesy Hollywood crap spoil a moment of them, and if I can say or do anything to help prevent that I will. Moaning about it after it happens doesn't interest me in the least. Too late then. On the other hand, fierce and rancid reaction before the crime has a chance of preventing it. For an example, see the antagonistic audience reaction to Jackson's 48 frames-per-second projection speed trailer exhibition that resulted in him showing his latest Hobbit footage at the standard 24 frames-per-second during the recent ComicCon exhibition. Negative feedback can and does work. If people don't like something they should say so. But if they couch their remarks in mealy-mouthed, simpering euphemisms -- i.e., "take out" rather than "kill" -- then no one in a position of power will take them at all seriously. Ridicule that hits the mark accomplishes a lot more than vapid generalizations that fear to "offend" tender sensibilities. Grownups can discuss anything without taking any offense whatsoever. So I write for adults.

As my younger brother the high school teacher and football coach likes to tell his students and players: "You will receive from others in this life precisely the treatment that you are prepared to tolerate." The same goes for crappy films and ruinous, endless "wars." Tolerate them for an instant and you'll get only more of the same.

And by the way, women who serve in real-world military forces -- as opposed to sanitized, choreographed fantasy ones -- stand a greater chance of sexual assault from their fellow male servicemen than they do getting killed in battle by the enemy. I take it that you would would not wish to read any real-world literature or see any graphic films painting for you a picture of what an actual elf-chick security guard's life would resemble. I don't think you have any idea whatsoever. And neither does Peter Jackson and his "strong women" script-writing team. So I don't want to see any of their dance-routines masquerading as orc-and-warg-disemboweling "combat." I'd rather just hear a poetry recitation. Much more useful and believable.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

"I have never seen your published standards for forum discussion and I certainly haven't agreed to abide by them. I write what I wish to say. Others can take that or leave that, just as I take or leave what they have to say.

Just to clarify what the forum standards are, TMT, you can find them here:Barrow Downs Forum Policies and here: Guidelines for Forum Posting.

The Barrow Downs has always been an inclusive discussion forum. That is, very early on the Administrators decided that the general tone of discussion ought to be one which would be appropriate for children, adolescents, and adults, because Tolkien's work appeals to all those audiences. The style was a nod to Tolkien's own civility. That might be a standard now generally not respected in various cultures around the world, but it is a standard which we try to respect here.

By posting here, you agree to abide by these standards. If you don't want to "write for children" then don't post here, because we don't use "children" pejoratively to denigrate civility and respect for others. We disagree, but we don't lard our attacks with insults and sarcasm at the poster.

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

Frankly, I do not remember directing any unkind or unfair remarks to any other poster in this forum. In fact, I don't think I have "disagreed" with almost anyone here.

I distinctly remember some very rude and sarcastic comments to Formendacil -- comments which were unfair. And other Downers did object to them as something not in keeping with the spirit of the Downs.


Just sayin'.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

. Grownups can discuss anything without taking any offense whatsoever. So I write for adults.
.

Just bear in mind that though that this is not an adults only forum. It does have a family friendly policy. While many of the youngsters who joined perhaps because of the first films are now grown up, we do have some younger members and are likely to get more as the new films arrive. I am sure film cynics will have a particular desire to set them on the "true path" ie loving the books as the Prof wrote them and it would be a shame if parents, rightfully concerned about what their young are doing on line felt that this was not a suitable place for them.

I have found many of your posts pithy and extremely funny but some have been a bit near the knuckle and I have actually been suprised that they hadn't been picked up on. I am sorry if this sounds prissy but it is just a case of remembering that we aren't all grown ups and using language accordingly.

[Nerwen]

Misfortune Teller, I myself have very serious doubts indeed about these Hobbit films, which are starting to sound more and more like glorified fan-fiction– but it seems to me, too, that you could just as well discuss them– or even blast them, hey!– while being bit more civil and a bit less crude. Further– though it is fair enough for you to object to Tauriel as a likely Mary-Sue-action-girl–cliché– I regret to say that I've been getting more and more the impression from you of a certain degree of general hostility towards women– or at any any rate towards those who (even in fiction) step outside what you consider a woman's proper place to be. It may be wrong, but that's what I'm getting. I mean, so much of your negativity here seems to have been prompted by the mere addition of a female character, and also by her being a warrior or something (not unheard of in Tolkien's work, so I don't see why it should be in itself considered a travesty).

On a somewhat similar note: as I believe this is not the first time you've introduced a little piece about American foreign policy into a thread about film adaptations, I think I should tell you that it's pretty hard for a reader to know how to respond to this kind of thing. However strong this curious association of ideas may be for you, I doubt many other people share it, so I'm afraid it's just coming across as rather random and confusing, honestly.

I suppose what I'm really saying here is– rail against Jackson and his past and present efforts all you like, but please lighten up a bit, and maybe try and shed some of this extra baggage you seem to be bringing with you. Okay? How about it?

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Make sure you get your Young-Elf-Lord + Elf-Chick-Security-Guard toys and posters as soon as they hit Toys-R-Us, Tolkienite consumers, even though you may have to wait another year to actually see these characters "intertwine" in Part Two of a shorter story by J. R. R. Tolkien in which they never appeared, either singly or together.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012...ed/#more-62227

Toy-store-merchandize-tie-ins driving a story's narrative and characters may thrill consumers of crap commodities, but I prefer my literate entertainment -- like my drinking water -- pure and not polluted with Hollywood formula industrial waste.

We see them now together
Just like we long suspected:
Her coy, come-hither glances
Leave him (surprise!) erected.

I remember at the conclusion of the Lord of the Rings trilogy where a great many viewers -- including Jack Nicholson -- complained of the "multiple endings" that occurred after King Aragorn and his Elven Princess Arwen had their big kiss at his coronation. The film-makers had spent so much of the narrative trying to beef up this Hollywood romance angle -- hardly mentioned at all by Tolkien -- that the hobbits had become almost an afterthought. I see the same dubious dynamic at work with this completely unnecessary "thing" between the young (only a few thousand years old) Elf Lord Legolas and Itaril (Release 1.0) or Tauriel (Release 2.0) fan-fiction marketing ploy. Any time spent away from Bilbo Baggins makes The Hobbit less about one particular, exemplary hobbit and more about selling tie-in toys and video games to "Tolkienite consumers."

I would lampoon this ludicrous idea in even more scatological verse if only I knew how. Sometimes a dumb idea becomes so much a parody of itself that even poetic license cannot improve upon the inherent irony.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

But, MisfortuneTeller,

Why don't you say what you really think? I mean, don't hold back...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

Make sure you get your Young-Elf-Lord + Elf-Chick-Security-Guard toys and posters as soon as they hit Toys-R-Us, Tolkienite consumers, even though you may have to wait another year to actually see these characters "intertwine" in Part Two of a shorter story by J. R. R. Tolkien in which they never appeared, either singly or together.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012...ed/#more-62227

I like this quote from the article:

[Thranduil's] appearance in the film, while not cannon, is certainly logical and perhaps even likely. His role in Jackson’s films are not yet clear.

Odds are it'll be a "cannon" all right, blowing a Smaug-sized hole into the concept of artistic integrity.

I'm just waiting for Transformer-style Beorn, going from man to bear, and back again. And will the Master of Lake-town come with a huge pile of gold to allow one to re-enact his running off to the wilderness and dying of dragon-sickness?