Hobbit2 - Chapter 02 - Roast Mutton - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

jallanite · 05-14-2012, 12:33 PM

I can’t recall any authentic folk tale with a talking purse or a talking wallet but it feel perfectly right to me.

In Jack and the Beanstalk the harp calls out, “Master, master!” when Jack takes it and that wakes up the giant.

Also, evil magical beings in folk tales often roam about at night but are turned to stone at dawn. Tolkien only uniquely make this a characteristic of the monsters known as trolls.

This works, for me, in part, because Tolkien presents these magical characteristics as though the reader really ought to know about them and most readers accept that, at least for this story.

The effete and city-bred character who is ridiculed because he cannot do bird calls is a common motif in tales. The point of Thorin urging that Bilbo ought to “hoot twice like a barn-owl and once like a screech-owl” is surely to point out that the dwarves have previously been involved in many adventures so that the could not imagine that anyone, especially a supposed professional burglar, could not do something so simple. But Bilbo can’t.

Bilbo makes a mess of his first adventure, and he knows it. Bilbo understands what a legendary burglar ought to do but it is simply beyond his capability. Gandalf is necessary to save the dwarves by the simple folk tale method of distracting the evil creatures until dawn comes, like the hero of the Grimm Brothers’ “The Brave Little Tailor” near the end of that tale: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html . The tailor tricks the giants into fighting just as Gandalf tricks the trolls.

The difference in Tolkien’s tale as compared to most (but not all) traditional tales is that usually the protagonist may start out as an apparent failure but beginning with his first adventure he triumphs over whatever he comes across. It is a more modern technique to actually show the protagonist as a failure to allow a build-up to his latter success.

05-14-2012, 12:33 PM	#3
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	I can’t recall any authentic folk tale with a talking purse or a talking wallet but it feel perfectly right to me. In Jack and the Beanstalk the harp calls out, “Master, master!” when Jack takes it and that wakes up the giant. Also, evil magical beings in folk tales often roam about at night but are turned to stone at dawn. Tolkien only uniquely make this a characteristic of the monsters known as trolls. This works, for me, in part, because Tolkien presents these magical characteristics as though the reader really ought to know about them and most readers accept that, at least for this story. The effete and city-bred character who is ridiculed because he cannot do bird calls is a common motif in tales. The point of Thorin urging that Bilbo ought to “hoot twice like a barn-owl and once like a screech-owl” is surely to point out that the dwarves have previously been involved in many adventures so that the could not imagine that anyone, especially a supposed professional burglar, could not do something so simple. But Bilbo can’t. Bilbo makes a mess of his first adventure, and he knows it. Bilbo understands what a legendary burglar ought to do but it is simply beyond his capability. Gandalf is necessary to save the dwarves by the simple folk tale method of distracting the evil creatures until dawn comes, like the hero of the Grimm Brothers’ “The Brave Little Tailor” near the end of that tale: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm020.html . The tailor tricks the giants into fighting just as Gandalf tricks the trolls. The difference in Tolkien’s tale as compared to most (but not all) traditional tales is that usually the protagonist may start out as an apparent failure but beginning with his first adventure he triumphs over whatever he comes across. It is a more modern technique to actually show the protagonist as a failure to allow a build-up to his latter success.