Suicide in Middle Earth

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Sardy

This calls to mind a related question - that of the idea of Faith vs. Knowledge in the elves. Perhaps if there is sufficient discussion, this should be given it's own thread...

Particularly of the elves born in Middle-earth (though possibly of the older elves, whereas memory of Mandos and Valinor might have faded to a dreamlike remembrance over the passage of millenia), is their eventual appearance in Mandos or journey to Valinor upon being slain or leaving Middle-earth forgone knowledge that they could count upon in their every day actions and decisions, or is it more akin to a strong conviction or faith, hoping for and believing in an "afterlife" upon leaving Middle-earth...?

Well obviously they have no way of verifying it "physically" - they have never seen it with their own eyes. So it is rather, as you say, a strong conviction or faith. They have to believe what their ancestors and friends who claim to have spoken to Valar themselves etc., and to believe to the legends that go among the Elves since the beginning... but in fact, to be precise, even the Elves who had e.g. met Valar face-to-face don't have any absolute knowledge. If I am not mistaken, nobody of the living has been in Mandos to actually verify that the Elves are sitting there, no? The only exception would be Glorfindel (if he indeed is the same one), so he is the closest you can get to as "eyewitness". Apart from that? You have to believe the claims of the Elves around you, or even the Valar - it is still just believing their words, not anything else.

(But of course, as a note, the fact that it is not "knowledge" but "only" faith does not mean that they could not count on it in their every day actions and decisions. What good would it be for them if they didn't? That's no faith to speak of, obviously.)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If I am not mistaken, nobody of the living has been in Mandos to actually verify that the Elves are sitting there, no?

The way I understood it is that most of the Elves do, eventually, come out of Mandos, and they reincarnate - like Glorfindel. However, none of the reincarnated save Glorfindel ever came to ME... unless some of those who came there during War of Wrath have been through Mandos. I doubt it, though. I think Mandos doesn't let fear out so quickly... but, on the other hand, Finwe waited for Miriel to return for a long time before marrying Indis. So for some (depending on their deeds during their physical life, I would guess) the period of awaiting a new body may be short, though it's always up to them to take it or to leave it...

Argh. To many what-ifs and on-the-other-hands. Am I some kind of octopus?

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Argh. To many what-ifs and on-the-other-hands. Am I some kind of octopus?

Do not go to Galadriel for advice, for she shall say, yea, nay, maybe, on the other hand, perhaps, definitely...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Do not go to Galadriel for advice, for she shall say, yea, nay, maybe, on the other hand, perhaps, definitely...

There is a 94.87% chance that it shall be so, but you know there's always the possibility of the other 5.13% out there.

However, if the fact that you said "Galadriel" and not "Galadriel55" will be taken (seriously) into account, the above statement is not exact.

See? It is exact.

On the other other other other hand, though...