Intellectual hooliganism topic: Middle Earth Archaeology - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Annalaliath · 03-02-2012, 05:26 PM

it depends on the material and the kind of waterlogged. Also, if this is far in the future of Middle Earth, wouldn't the cultures change a lot? Some of those old places of evil men may have changed. Again, the guys doing the digging could be a bit like Indiana Jones... and that opens up a whole can of ethics worms.

The place I'd be interested in would be the Dead Marshes. I wonder if they would still be marshes or would have changed over time. mmmm.

Galadriel55 · 03-02-2012, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annalaliath

The place I'd be interested in would be the Dead Marshes. I wonder if they would still be marshes or would have changed over time. mmmm.

Oh that one's a treasure!

But then Gollum says that he couldn't touch the dead there. So are they really there?

The mention of Indiana Jones made me think of the Paths of the Dead. What secrets do you think they hold?

Annalaliath · 03-02-2012, 06:22 PM

They would hold scary things. lol. I need to read a few books.

Alfirin · 03-02-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Oh that one's a treasure!

But then Gollum says that he couldn't touch the dead there. So are they really there?

That's a tough one, but my guess is "no".The Dead Marshes have some weird magic going on. The faces are described as "rotting" it think, but given the time that has passed, the faces in the dead marshes should be nothing but skeletons (if indeed still there at all). If the marsh is acidic and peaty, it could pickle the bodies but the water would likey then be too murky to see them. The faces are supposed to be mostly war graves as I recall (i.e. bodies that were actually buried, as opposed to simply left on the battle field). Even assuming that the modern "6 feet under" was practiced back then, the bodies would still be reachable by Gollum. Maybe not by simply sticking his hand in a pool, but Gollum, due to his long aquatic existance is (unlike normal hobbits) a good swimmer and diver; six feet would probably not trouble him much. If he says he can't reach them, they're probably illusions; or souls trapped in the land with all physical remnants rotted away, or Orc plundered (Orcs being orcs, I assume that if there was any good stuff left on the ground or in the graves,later orcs would have tramped in (maybe during the period before the marshes expanded, when the ground was still solid, and dug it all up. Orcs are not likey to respect burials).

Galadriel55 · 03-02-2012, 06:37 PM

You're right about the orcs, but I'm not sure if there were actually enough of them out there before the marshes came. It all depends on when the water came - before Sauron declared himself in Mordor and started building up his power, or after that.

Eruhen · 03-02-2012, 10:12 PM

Personally, I've always wondered this: what was behind that door Brego died trying to open?

Galadriel55 · 03-02-2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eruhen

Personally, I've always wondered this: what was behind that door Brego died trying to open?

It's for the Dead to know and for the Living to wonder.

And by the way, in The Passing of the Grey Company it says that the air in that cave was very dry, and that was why Brego's shape was still intact. This would be your perfect Indiana Jones archeology!

Annalaliath · 03-03-2012, 01:03 PM

Then I have to wonder, how much of the magic would still be around Middle Earth in a society contemporary to our own. Again, caves are great for preservation. I am wondering if I should pose some questions to Dr. Strauss my Archaeology instructor, would that just be too weird. " So, Dr. Strauss, how do you think Archaeology would work in Middle Earth?" ....

Inziladun · 03-03-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eruhen

Personally, I've always wondered this: what was behind that door Brego died trying to open?

That's Gandalf's "uncloaking room".

Really though, ME denizens didn't seem to have a lot of interest in digging in the ground or in old ruins for the sake of curiosity.

The Dwarves' interest in Moria was more a financial one, I think, connected to the mithril lode, though the tradition of the place was a draw too.

Men don't seem to care much at all. We don't see expeditions from Gondor to visit ruined Fornost or Amon Sûl, or even to wander through nearby Osgiliath, its former capital, without some sort of business driving them.

All in all, I see much more interest in the people from the past, as opposed to places. And that's mostly connected to family lineage, and whatnot.

As for the "modern" era finding Middle-earth ruins or artifacts, I think they'd probably look a lot like the things we find in reality. Tolkien said that scientific analyses of a "magical" item such as lembas would fail to reveal anything special about it, and I think the same would hold true for other things of Middle-earth.

Annalaliath · 03-03-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

All in all, I see much more interest in the people from the past, as opposed to places. And that's mostly connected to family lineage, and whatnot.

Archaeology isn't about the stuff that is found, it is about understanding past peoples and cultures as best we can through the things they leave behind. Honestly we are like dumpster divers. Objects are objects, but the people who made them and used them are what's important.

03-02-2012, 05:26 PM	#1
Annalaliath Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 380	it depends on the material and the kind of waterlogged. Also, if this is far in the future of Middle Earth, wouldn't the cultures change a lot? Some of those old places of evil men may have changed. Again, the guys doing the digging could be a bit like Indiana Jones... and that opens up a whole can of ethics worms. The place I'd be interested in would be the Dead Marshes. I wonder if they would still be marshes or would have changed over time. mmmm. __________________ Bloody Stumps!!!

03-02-2012, 06:22 PM	#3
Annalaliath Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 380	They would hold scary things. lol. I need to read a few books. __________________ Bloody Stumps!!!

03-02-2012, 06:37 PM	#5
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,516	You're right about the orcs, but I'm not sure if there were actually enough of them out there before the marshes came. It all depends on when the water came - before Sauron declared himself in Mordor and started building up his power, or after that. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

03-02-2012, 10:12 PM	#6
Eruhen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: At the Mountains of Madness Posts: 399	Personally, I've always wondered this: what was behind that door Brego died trying to open? __________________ Agannâlô burôda nênud; zâira nênud. Adûn izindi batân tâidô ayadda: îdô kâtha batîna lôkhî. Êphalak îdôn Yôzâyan. Êphal êphalak îdôn hi-Akallabêth.

03-03-2012, 01:03 PM	#8
Annalaliath Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 380	Then I have to wonder, how much of the magic would still be around Middle Earth in a society contemporary to our own. Again, caves are great for preservation. I am wondering if I should pose some questions to Dr. Strauss my Archaeology instructor, would that just be too weird. " So, Dr. Strauss, how do you think Archaeology would work in Middle Earth?" .... __________________ Bloody Stumps!!! Last edited by Annalaliath; 03-03-2012 at 01:13 PM.