Elrond in PJ's LotR

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim

. Would anyone disagree with the general portrayal of Gandalf was on the mark? I don't mean so much the incidents (major deviations from Tolkien's characterization of Gandalf in RotK) but Ian McKellen sort of "being" Gandalf.

I would. I thought he was possibly the least convincing. McKellen on screen is always McKellen to me. He never seems to disappear into his character. I think he is better on stage. What works in a theatre context looks very mannered to me projected on a giant screen. But then, the Radio adaptation has a hold on my heart in the way that the films no doubt have on others of a younger generation.

Some of the fim actors I prefer to the radio ones .. Sean Bean (despite the accent - seemed weird that he spoke Yorkshire when his father and brother spoke Oxford english), Viggo Mortensen, Cate Blanchett, others as good but Michael Hordern as Gandalf and Holm, Nighy and Woodthorpe as Frodo Sam and gollum are unbeatable for me...

[Dilettante]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I would. I thought he was possibly the least convincing. McKellen on screen is always McKellen to me. He never seems to disappear into his character. I think he is better on stage. What works in a theatre context looks very mannered to me projected on a giant screen. But then, the Radio adaptation has a hold on my heart in the way that the films no doubt have on others of a younger generation.

Some of the fim actors I prefer to the radio ones .. Sean Bean (despite the accent - seemed weird that he spoke Yorkshire when his father and brother spoke Oxford english), Viggo Mortensen, Cate Blanchett, others as good but Michael Hordern as Gandalf and Holm, Nighy and Woodthorpe as Frodo Sam and gollum are unbeatable for me...

I got the boxed set of BBC Radio's The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings on CD for Christmas this year. I have never heard them before, and I am about halfway through The Hobbit right now. It's quite good. I am excited to listen to LOTR and see how the voice actors compare to the movie. Dear old Ian Holm I know will be wonderful.

Elrond is one of my favorite characters in all the Midde-Earth canon. Hugo Weaving is an amazing actor and really does look the part. I don't think he was miscast, but I do think the part for him was written badly. Elrond started out grouchy and cranky in LOTR and just got worse. By ROTK he was the typical creepy overprotective dad who chases his daughter's boyfriends away and convinces her to leave. Not very well done in my opinion.

[Mithalwen]

There is a thread with an episode by episode discussion somewhere including welcome contributions from Mr Sibley himself. We never quite finished alas... I find it interesting that I love in that adaptation the bits I tend to skim in the book. The handling of Sam, Frodo and Gollum is wonderful IMO Bill Nighy, perhaps suprisingly in the light of the rather louche roles he tends to get now is great as Sam, Woodthorpe is vastly superior to Serkis IMO .. and Radio Faramir..... is all he should be.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Michael Hordern as Gandalf and Holm, Nighy and Woodthorpe as Frodo Sam and gollum are unbeatable for me...

Almost entirely agree. Although I found Holm's Frodo a little too old, and a little too aggressive at times, it was a performance that knocked me for six.

I think the only reason McKellan's Gandalf was not more powerful for me was that Horden had already provided, for me, the definitive Gandalf.

And Mithalwen, I'd add John McAndrew's Pippin, Andrew Seear's Faramir, and Douglas Livingstone's Gimli to the list of unbeatables you cite.

But back to the thread title, Elrond was one of the characters of whom I never really had a visual image in my mind. I did not see him as manipulative, though, and his character was certainly twisted and used to drive the plot and the tension. Neither do I think Elrond - or indeed Tolkien - would have considered Isildur in the light that PJ's Elrond appears to. Reminds me of the Parodic Precis of Bakshi's LOTR on the Tolkien Sarcasm Page: "Ha! Some hero: Isildur the backstabbing sneak."

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Almost entirely agree. Although I found Holm's Frodo a little too old, and a little too aggressive at times, it was a performance that knocked me for six.

I think the only reason McKellan's Gandalf was not more powerful for me was that Horden had already provided, for me, the definitive Gandalf.

And Mithalwen, I'd add John McAndrew's Pippin, Andrew Seear's Faramir, and Douglas Livingstone's Gimli to the list of unbeatables you cite.

I don't disagree.. I could have mentioned many more of the cast..Andrew Seear's Faramir was remarkable and I was thinking of the performance as well as the writing when I said Faramir was all he should be. I am fascinated by your comments on Holm. I just foundhe pitched it brilliantly and put the moments of fierceness due to teh stress of the ring.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I am fascinated by your comments on Holm. I just foundhe pitched it brilliantly and put the moments of fierceness due to teh stress of the ring.

Is there a thread where we can discuss this further?

On the topic of Elrond, the twinkly stars around his head in the Rankin-Bass cartoon were quite memorable.

Hugo Weaving's Elrond does not exactly come across as "as kind as summer," but not only was he driving the plot with urgency, Gandalf was being portrayed as the more compassionate of the two: "It is a burden he should never have been asked to bear. We can ask no more of Frodo," versus "Our list of allies grows thin," etc.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is there a thread where we can discuss this further?

Hugo Weaving's Elrond does not exactly come across as "as kind as summer," but not only was he driving the plot with urgency, Gandalf was being portrayed as the more compassionate of the two: "It is a burden he should never have been asked to bear. We can ask no more of Frodo," versus "Our list of allies grows thin," etc.

AS if a list could grow thin (unless it previoulsy ran to many pages)vtsk grumble grumble. I have bumped up the main radio discussion thread which was started by Davem and features fascinating insights from Brian Sibley. I must re read it. I am long overdue a re listen but RL got in the way for a while there..

[Pervinca Took]

Actually I agree with you, Mithalwen. I was quite shocked at how manipulative the films made Elrond, but I was shocked at how several of the characters were portrayed. It's why the movies never really worked that well for me - enjoyable to see as films, but not as adaptations of a most beloved book that I could watch again and again. Visually spectacular, and with some very fine moments. But character portrayal tends to be more important to me than landscape and other visuals.

At least the wardrobe department did well. Very well, in fact.

He did come across more human in a much later scene with Arwen - "Do not I also have your love?" But - "Welcome to Rivendell, Frodo Baggins" (cue very-mature-Gorgonzola-strength-cheese expression from Frodo) - oh dear.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against changes in adaptations. I only object when said changes seriously mangle the characters, and it's perfectly possible to change and adapt without doing this.

[Mithalwen]

Lol - I thought that scene was deeply creepy Dad and totally not the Elrond of the books. But I do remember a few examples of a lovely smile. But my issue is with the script not Hugo (who I have adored since I was 13..which is a little while ago now *ahem*. But while I saw the films I have never managed to sit through the later ones again. I loved the costumes, many of the sets and much of the casting. But I too would have preferred more characterisation and was bored to sobs during the endless tedious battle scenes. Especially sinceI knew how they were done. I did enjoy the Science Museum exhibition. I did feel that the costume, prop, set designers really loved Tolkien in a way I suspect PJ does not. Anyway I was not the target demographic. All inall rather peripheral to my love of Tolkien.