Orcs, will, rings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galadriel55 · 12-30-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The Moria Orcs were far enough away that they didn't have direct supervision from Sauron, but still they served his purposes in keeping Moria (and the mountain-crossing there) secure from his enemies. I daresay they would have answered a direct summons from him.

Moria orcs worshiped the Balrog more than Sauron or Saruman. They would have listened to him/it if he/it told them to do something, but it really depends on how Sauron summons/commands them. They couldn't care less for Grishnakh and his Nazgul.

Inziladun · 12-30-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Moria orcs worshiped the Balrog more than Sauron or Saruman. They would have listened to him/it if he/it told them to do something, but it really depends on how Sauron summons/commands them. They couldn't care less for Grishnakh and his Nazgul.

They obeyed the Balrog because it was there, as opposed to the much more remote Sauron. That begs the question though: would the Balrog have tried to prevent them from leaving in answer to Sauron? I somehow don't think so. The Balrog really didn't need them, anyway.

blantyr · 12-30-2011, 07:48 PM

As I recall, Frodo asked Galadriel why he could not read the minds of the other ring bearers, or command them. Her response that he had not tried, and she warned him not to try. He would have to train his mind and will in order to successfully use that power. I suspect he would have more likely attracted unwanted attention from Nazgul than any other result if he tried to use that power untrained.

I suspect Sauron's, the Balrog's or Melkor's power over the orcs would be the same thing. Command through will and fear was part of what Sauron does, and he put part of that power into the Ring.

Tinman · 12-30-2011, 08:44 PM

So would an orc finding such a precious treasure attempt to keep it a secret? Or would they probably turn it in to gain the dark lords favor (out avoid his wrath)? Our would it be different depending in the orc?

Inziladun · 12-30-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinman

So would an orc finding such a precious treasure attempt to keep it a secret? Or would they probably turn it in to gain the dark lords favor (out avoid his wrath)? Our would it be different depending in the orc?

I think it would depend upon whether the Orc knew what he had. If he recognized it as the Ruling Ring, and especially if other Orcs were aware of it, it would have a much greater chance of being brought to Sauron.

A lone Orc finding it, like Grishnákh for example, might keep it long enough to it to start working on him, leading to an eventual claim. And that, of course, would be the same as taking the Ring to Sauron: he would end up with it regardless.

Elmo · 01-03-2012, 05:31 AM

It is mentioned in Morgoth's Ring that some of the most powerful orcs in the First Age could have been maiar. It's a quality book I suggest everyone get it. Some beautiful writing in it.

I don't see why an orc wouldn't try to claim the ring for himself. It was a dream of quite a few orcs to break free of their 'big bosses' as shown in Shagrat's and Gorbag's conversation in LOTR. The ring would claim to give them the power to do this - by turning the orc in question into a big boss themselves.

Elmo · 01-03-2012, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

They obeyed the Balrog because it was there, as opposed to the much more remote Sauron. That begs the question though: would the Balrog have tried to prevent them from leaving in answer to Sauron? I somehow don't think so. The Balrog really didn't need them, anyway.

I think the balrog was completely indifferent to the orcs in Moria, hence his refusal to fight in the Battle of Azanulbizar.

Galadriel55 · 01-03-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo

I think the balrog was completely indifferent to the orcs in Moria, hence his refusal to fight in the Battle of Azanulbizar.

Aye, but the orcs are not indifferent to the Balrog.

01-03-2012, 05:31 AM	#6
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	It is mentioned in Morgoth's Ring that some of the most powerful orcs in the First Age could have been maiar. It's a quality book I suggest everyone get it. Some beautiful writing in it. I don't see why an orc wouldn't try to claim the ring for himself. It was a dream of quite a few orcs to break free of their 'big bosses' as shown in Shagrat's and Gorbag's conversation in LOTR. The ring would claim to give them the power to do this - by turning the orc in question into a big boss themselves. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

12-30-2011, 07:48 PM	#3
blantyr Wight Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Settling down in Bree for the winter. Posts: 208	As I recall, Frodo asked Galadriel why he could not read the minds of the other ring bearers, or command them. Her response that he had not tried, and she warned him not to try. He would have to train his mind and will in order to successfully use that power. I suspect he would have more likely attracted unwanted attention from Nazgul than any other result if he tried to use that power untrained. I suspect Sauron's, the Balrog's or Melkor's power over the orcs would be the same thing. Command through will and fear was part of what Sauron does, and he put part of that power into the Ring.

12-30-2011, 08:44 PM	#4
Tinman Newly Deceased Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2	So would an orc finding such a precious treasure attempt to keep it a secret? Or would they probably turn it in to gain the dark lords favor (out avoid his wrath)? Our would it be different depending in the orc?