Bombadil: One of the Blue Wizards?

[Galadriel55]

Personally, I'm at peace thinking that I'm not meant to know TB's identity. He is, and that's all I need to know.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Personally, I'm at peace thinking that I'm not meant to know TB's identity. He is, and that's all I need to know.

But wild speculation is so much fun!

I think I'm now partial to this idea. It makes perfect sense.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think I'm now partial to this idea. It makes perfect sense.

Are you serious or is this yet another joke I don't get?

(I remember a similar idea being discussed and abandoned on a different thread, but there are so many TB threads by now I can't remember which)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Are you serious or is this yet another joke I don't get?

Let's just say that site has been a great source of Tolkien humor over the years.

[Sarumian]

As I remember, Tolkien mentions him in The Silmarillion. He says, that at the time when ME lied in darkness lit by stars only and children of Eru woke up he was walking here and there...

My opinion is that Bombadil is the first Stuart of ME, he was left behind by Vallar when they left to the West in order to keep eye on ME and guide first elves (and may be men). His ability to give orders to trees, to make roads in the wood can be useful to direct elves to the West. Later he retired to a small corner of ME and kept it unchanged as a kind of national park

When Gandalf says they are alike, I believe, he means the stuartship. Bombadil's powers make me think he was a Maia.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Sarumian

As I remember, Tolkien mentions him in The Silmarillion. He says, that at the time when ME lied in darkness lit by stars only and children of Eru woke up he was walking here and there...

That sounds more like Tom speaking of himself to the Hobbits.

'When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless--before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'

FOTR In the House of Tom Bombadil

Bombadil is not mentioned in The Silmarillion.

Originally Posted by Sarumian

My opinion is that Bombadil is the first Stuart of ME, he was left behind by Vallar when they left to the West in order to keep eye on ME and guide first elves (and may be men). His ability to give orders to trees, to make roads in the wood can be useful to direct elves to the West. Later he retired to a small corner of ME and kept it unchanged as a kind of national park

If Tom was a "steward" though, he doesn't seem to have had any success with "guiding" the Eldar. The Vala Oromë was the first to contact them.

No, Gandalf speaks of him as a "moss-gatherer". To me that means he had no active, intended role in the fates of the denizens of ME, at least in the eyes of the Valar. My own idea is that he could indeed have been an Ainu who entered Eä very early on, and was content to merely observe the unfolding of the Themes.
If, as I think, Ungoliant was a spirit of the same nature following her own agenda, I see no reason why it couldn't have been so with Tom.

When his path crossed that of Frodo and Co. though, Bombadil recognized that the meeting wasn't a random event.

'Did I hear you calling? Nay, I did not hear: I was busy singing. Just chance brought me then, if chance you call it. It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you.'

So, he implies there was a plan, but it wasn't his. He was the master of himself, yet he still saw there was a greater force than he.
That says to me that while Tom had been allowed by the Maker to do his own thing in Middle-earth, he was still used to accomplish things not of his own design.

I suppose what I mean to say is that I see Bombadil as having no particular agenda. He just was, and seems to have had a pretty idyllic existence.

[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Bombadil is not mentioned in The Silmarillion.

Totally agree, it's Istari, who were mentioned there.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If Tom was a "steward" though, he doesn't seem to have had any success with "guiding" the Eldar. The Vala Oromë was the first to contact them.

I did not mean contact, I rather meant he could do some arrangements secretly. And gathering some information for Valar. He could also be on a special mission from Eru.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

No, Gandalf speaks of him as a "moss-gatherer". To me that means he had no active, intended role in the fates of the denizens of ME, at least in the eyes of the Valar. My own idea is that he could indeed have been an Ainu who entered Eä very early on, and was content to merely observe the unfolding of the Themes.
If, as I think, Ungoliant was a spirit of the same nature following her own agenda, I see no reason why it couldn't have been so with Tom.

Gandalf says: he IS a moths-gatherer, that doesn't mean he always was. I think he is close to the soul of ME as someone who always was there, and he helps ME to keep its identity waterer changes it goes through. He preserves the sense of living their. And I believe this is the fate of ME that they were talking about in the end. But I still think that he could have been a secret supervisor over first children of Eru and a kind of gardener of their forest who retired when they became ready to be on there own.

I do not insist on this, I just like the idea. Yours is similarly good for me. He is enigma.

[Legolas]

Even with as much ambiguity that surrounds both the Ithryn Luin and Tom Bombadil, I think we know enough to rule out a connection.

The blue wizards arrived either with the other three wizards in the Third Age or in the Second Age with Glorinfdel before meandering into the east. Bombadil, on the other hand, was called "oldest" and "fatherless." He came before the rivers, trees, Kings, etc. per his own word - even "before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

Bombadil's immunity and indifference to the Ring (and Gandalf's familiarity with this) is also a sign to me. That's usually used as evidence that he wasn't a Maia of any sort, Istar or otherwise.

At the Council of Elrond, Gandalf reckons that "if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind."

Saruman was obviously obsessed with obtaining the Ring and its power. Sauron needed it back. Gandalf rejected taking it from Frodo for fear of becoming like Sauron. I think we can expect that Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando would all struggle similarly; the Ring would affect anyone and everyone.

'No!' cried Gandalf, springing to his feet. 'With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.' His eyes flashed and his face was lit as by a fire within. 'Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself. Yet the way of the Ring to my heart is by pity, pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good. Do not tempt me! I dare not take it, not even to keep it safe, unused. The wish to wield it would be too great, for my strength. I shall have such need of it. Great perils lie before me.' (Book 1, Chapter II 'The Shadow Of The Past')

Well, anyone but Tom.

Then Tom put the Ring round the end of his little finger and held it up to the candlelight. For a moment the hobbits noticed nothing strange about this. Then they gasped. There was no sign of Tom disappearing!

Tom laughed again, and then he spun the Ring in the air - and it vanished with a flash. Frodo gave a cry - and Tom leaned forward and handed it back to him with a smile. (Book 1, Chapter VII 'In The House Of Tom Bombadil')

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Personally, I'm at peace thinking that I'm not meant to know TB's identity. He is, and that's all I need to know.

Three cheers!

"He is the Master of wood, water, and hill."

Tolkien was pretty adamant that "...even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)." Of course, we can always continue speculation.