The Hobbit Movie Trailer!

[Valesse]

Greetings fellow Downers!
It's been quite a while, but I come with good news! I'm sure we've all had our pointy little ears to the floor about this - some more so than others - but here it is! The first of many.

YouTube: The Hobbit Trailer

Enjoy Responsibly! ; )

[Mister Underhill]

My secret hope for this trailer, to say nothing of the film itself, is that it rouses a few slumbering wights and draws them from their barrows to caper on the Downs once more...

[piosenniel]

I'm dusting off the Hobbit costume I wore to the first LotR movie and sticking my old One Ring in my pocketses!!

Loved the Dwarven song . . . can't wait to see the Eagles . . .

[Estelyn Telcontar]

But, but - there are no instruments at Bag End!!! I want to see fiddles and flutes and viols and clarinets and a drum and a harp!

Aside from that, the general look of things is good, and yes - we now have one year to immerse ourselves in the hype! Did you notice that there is never a clear glimpse of any of the baddies? Keeping up the suspense...

[Elmo]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

But, but - there are no instruments at Bag End!!! I want to see fiddles and flutes and viols and clarinets and a drum and a harp!

Aside from that, the general look of things is good, and yes - we now have one year to immerse ourselves in the hype! Did you notice that there is never a clear glimpse of any of the baddies? Keeping up the suspense...

Or they haven't done the CGI for them yet

[Mithalwen]

Yawwwwwwwwwwwn... apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf it is same old same old.... despite the divine Mr Armitage....

[mark12_30]

The dwarves can sing... good, good. Instruments would be better, but still. I liked it.

Rivendell... good, good.

I find the continuity pleasant and hopeful. I'm not expecting perfection. Overall I liked it. And I plan to enjoy it.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Yawwwwwwwwwwwn... apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf it is same old same old.... despite the divine Mr Armitage....

And what is up with that!? A teaser for a spinoff movie? Coming Fall 2014: The Council of Seduction or, One Night With a Wizard.

[Kuruharan]

I liked the singing.

I think Bilbo is going to turn out alright.

Aside from some bothersome beardlessness and the glaringly fake ears the dwarves look more or less ok. Kiligolas is the worst offender on the beardless front in my opinion. He doesn't even have a beard at all, just stubble.

Is it my imagination but does Thorin's nose change size..? When he's shown starting the song it looks all big but later when he's whispering to Gandalf it looks normal sized again.

Evidently we are also going to get a fight with the trolls rather than what is described in the book (what a surprise).

I originally thought the shots of Gandalf by himself in the ruin were of him exploring Dul Guldur, but I have changed my mind and think it is just some random ruin.

We are also apparently going to have to deal with some typical elven egotism when the dwarves arrive at Rivendell (if that is indeed what that ridiculous scene with the elves on horses riding around the dwarves was).

apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf

That kinda creeped me out. I don't think many people picked that the silly and uncalled for romance in The Hobbit would be between Galadriel and Gandalf...but it suddenly looks that's the way it will go.

[EDIT] Apparently I'm not the only one bothered by the prospect of Galadriel and Gandalf bumping uglies.

[The Might]

Celeborn has been working so much lately and I feel so alone up in my flet...

Definitely strange and perhaps unnecessary, then again we just saw it out of context, perhaps in the movie it makes more sense.

[Rumil]

Ooooh nice,

Interesting, so what's happening, what clues do we have, what do we think my preciousssessss?

Bilbo I like but should be fatter at least at the beginning

We've commented on the Dwarves before, and the extreme lengths they had to go to to differentiate them, especially regarding hairstyles.

Bombur looks to be the comedy relief, to an extent he was in the Book, but I expect the film to be less subtle

Agree Esty, missing clarinets, drums and whatnot! Also a lack of colour-coded hoods, which you'd have thought would have been helpful.

Thorin seems dark and brooding which fits well, not sure he's properly dwarf-shaped though but I guess we'll see.

Where's Gandalf supoosed to be at 1.19? I can't think where open-air ruins fit except for maybe the remains of Dale or his earlier mission to Dol Guldur?

Gandalf meeting Galadriel - White Council scene presumably

1.36 Gandalf in Goblin-Town or Dol Guldur?

Who are the elves(?) on horseback at 1.52 Rivendell? (if so, then not terribly tra-la-lalally) or Thranduil's place, in which case it looks too Rivendelly?

1.58 Where's Gandalf fighting??

Must say I'm quite looking forward to it!

[Galadriel55]

I'm very glad to see that two best aspects of LOTR (IMO, of course) will be present in TH as well: the music and the scenery.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just seen it. As you may know, I am very skeptical, if not downright negative towards the movies. However, I am also very optimistic and hoping for the best even if I am prepared for the worst. So I have put away all my prejudices and started watching this completely without any presuppositions, and was looking forward to interpretate everything as positively as possible.

For those of you who liked the trailer a lot, I suggest you don't read any further and just go and enjoy the movie.

For those who continue reading: it was one of the worst things I have seen in a while.

It is still only a trailer, of course. And I am sure the agenda was to show "look, we are making a LotR prequel here" (why else to, e.g., put the Narsil scene there? Random). I can understand that and that is not what troubles me. After all, that was to be expected. But putting these things aside, I still think it does look very, very bad.

I think Mith summed up my general opinion quite well:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Yawwwwwwwwwwwn... apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf it is same old same old....

It is a trailer, so maybe it will have different mood (like some of the "fun scenes" like the Dwarves falling through the door), but, in short:
- too much like LotR. Yes, I think it looks like it will succeed in being in line with LotR movies. If that's what they wish (I assume they do), then they seem to be managing that, but that's not The Hobbit for me.
- too "serious" - that is partially going along with the previous comment
- too much like LotR and too serious: means epic battles with Trolls, means "Gandalf walks around some place which looks like Moria", means back again the same Gollum - this is not The Hobbit for me. Where is the feeling of the merry adventure? Where is the feeling of the "this is not really such a serious business as throwing the Ring into Mount Doom"? This does not even look like Indiana Jones (to which the treasure hunting idea could possibly be compared in terms of movies), it looks even far darker and more serious than Indiana Jones, and there is certainly something wrong with that kind of approach!
All this "deep, mysterious, we are being serious here" atmosphere is too much. Thorin whispering to Gandalf in this deep and serious tone. Thorin is supposed to be annoyed. Not serious. Too wrong.
- Thorin looks like somebody who has just escaped from Game of Thrones into the wrong movie. (And I am saying that even though I have not seen GoT).
- the worst thing ever: the Dwarven singing. Or: not exactly. When all of them start to sing, it is fine (even though not the way I imagine it). But Thorin alone = reminds me of Aragorn singing in the extended LotR (and that said, I actually did almost quite like Aragorn singing that - if I convinced myself that it is NOT the song of Lúthien, since I don't most certainly imagine it that way - but here, for Dwarf? Come ON!)

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

But, but - there are no instruments at Bag End!!! I want to see fiddles and flutes and viols and clarinets and a drum and a harp!

That too. Although if I stretched my expectations for a good TH movie, I would have been able to forgive even that to PJ - but making it sound the same like (his own-made!) Dúnedain songs - why? Why??? There is no answer to that question, why should Dwarven and Númenorean songs about ancient forgotten past of their race be the same??? This is not anything against the song itself, but it is not a Dwarven song. Most certainly it is not THE Dwarven song. Sorry.

- one thing which is nice in the trailer, really beautiful: the first large scenery where the Dwarves go towards the mountains. Forest in the foreground, mountains in the background. But that was also the one thing nice about LotR. But these epic beautiful wide sceneries are not enough for a good movie. Maybe if it was a nature documentary. Or travel documentary. "Survey M-E with our 13 Dwarves and Mr. Baggins from National Geographic!" But the story needs... story. And characters. And most of all, it should have at least a bit of the Hobbit mood.

I was originally talking to Lommy when I first saw this and told her exactly these things. At one point, she mentioned something like that "surely it could have been worse". And that made me think.

No, from what I have seen this far, I don't think it could have been worse than this. I am sorry. Despite all my best hopes - my best hopes were crushed. I did not believe they will be. But they were. It's all wrong.

I am, of course, still expecting to see more. This was just one small trailer. This is by no means final judgement. But first impression - I give you F-.

[Lalwendë]

I've been geeking out and watching on freeze frame and there are musical instruments at Bag End! I spied a lute (or similar) behind Nori at 0:44.

I'm very pleased with the Dwarves as they don't look like an amorphous mass of hairy, belching, short people. Lots of creative hair styles going on, some of the moustaches remind me of the kind of thing you see in these bizarre moustache growing competitions. And Kili is excused because maybe not having a beard is a sign of being a young rebel Besides, that's Aidan Turner, and he's no Orlando Bloom, he's capable of being perfectly 'brooding' as any Being Human fan knows.

There's something puzzling me though. At 0:52 there appears to be a Man in Bag Eng. It's not Gandalf, he is to the left, and I don't think it's a Dwarf sitting on a table. He has no beard and he has a tankard. Who is this?

I'm very pleased with Martin Freeman as Bilbo.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And what is up with that!? A teaser for a spinoff movie? Coming Fall 2014: The Council of Seduction or, One Night With a Wizard.

Ahahaha! I look forward to that!

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Is it my imagination but does Thorin's nose change size..? When he's shown starting the song is looks all big but later when he's whispering to Gandalf it looks normal sized again.

I find it more likely it was just your imagination because I usually pay a lot of attention to noses but didn't see anything. Or of course they might be having trouble with the prostheses (I'm assuming even Richard Armitage's nose wasn't good enough for them).

I was pleasantly surprised because there were few things I found outrageous. The lack of beards was one of them, though. I know they can't be true to the entire book, but how am I supposed to take a Dwarven prince seriously if his beard is about as long as Aragorn's? Fili and Kili are alright in the sense that they're very young and it could be argued theirs haven't grown yet, but Thorin? I am truly and deeply sad about it.

Edit: huh, crossed with Gal, Legate and Lal!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

One thing: okay, after rewatching it for about fourth or fifth time, I can start to see what might be nice about it - if it works out. It can be epic. (I have been now paying attention to the transformation of the song into the theme, which is probably going to be the main theme of TH.)

But still, what I said above, holds.

[Aganzir]

I feel so shallow now. Here I am, chattering about noses and beards, while some people go through the pains of explaining why Peter Jackson's vision is wrong. And no, I'm not poking fun at Legate - he has a point. That's what I felt too while watching the trailer, but being naturally inclined towards everything dark and gloomy and serious, I didn't mind. I think it might be a good movie, but I can also add my voice to Legate's one-man choir and say it's not going to be The Hobbit I know.

[Galadriel55]

@Legate: The funny thing is, I'm usually the one ripping apart every detail I don't like in the movies. What happened to me? I stopped caring that much for some reason! Although I agree with what you said, I'm not angry enough to add more of my own. At least right now.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

- Thorin looks like somebody who has just escaped from Game of Thrones into the wrong movie. (And I am saying that even though I have not seen GoT).

Do you have a particular GoT character in mind, or is it just the general air around Thorin?

Originally Posted by Legate

No, from what I have seen this far, I don't think it could have been worse than this.

Yes, it could have. They could have ruined the scenery and the music. Then it would be as bad as it gets.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

There's something puzzling me though. At 0:52 there appears to be a Man in Bag Eng. It's not Gandalf, he is to the left, and I don't think it's a Dwarf sitting on a table. He has no beard and he has a tankard. Who is this?

I thought it's one of the younger beardless Dwarves.

Edit: xed since Lal's post

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

One thing: okay, after rewatching it for about fourth or fifth time, I can start to see what might be nice about it - if it works out. It can be epic. (I have been now paying attention to the transformation of the song into the theme, which is probably going to be the main theme of TH.)

But still, what I said above, holds.

An argument in favour of it being more epic can be demonstrated in the contrast between RTD era Doctor Who and Moffat era Doctor Who. The former was epic, the latter wanted to be more 'fairy tale' - and it just doesn't work as well especially when you are expecting 'epic'. I think to be 'fairytale' in film a modern audience just can't take it without hefty dollops of irony (see Stardust - one of my favourite films, incidentally) and I'd rather not have loads of irony in The Hobbit.

However...this is a trailer and they're known for ramping up the action and it may all turn out differently in the final cut. And Martin Freeman has a knack for carrying off a role like Bilbo with a light touch.

Originally Posted by Galadriel 55

I thought it's one of the younger beardless Dwarves.

That would mean it was Kili, and being a seasoned Aidan Turner watcher (ahem) I'm sure it's not him.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I feel so shallow now. Here I am, chattering about noses and beards, while some people go through the pains of explaining why Peter Jackson's vision is wrong. And no, I'm not poking fun at Legate - he has a point. That's what I felt too while watching the trailer, but being naturally inclined towards everything dark and gloomy and serious, I didn't mind. I think it might be a good movie, but I can also add my voice to Legate's one-man choir and say it's not going to be The Hobbit I know.

Well, as for noses and beards - I went through that already when I first have seen the pictures of the Dwarves So I have sort of accepted that they look the way they look. Many of the Dwarves look like 17-century Warsaw militia, but I am fine with that. At least they do not look all like Vikings, which would have been the easiest, most "mainstream" (and most stupid) way anyway. I would second that the colored hoods are missing, though: one more, if not one of THE most important things, also related to the mood of the "real Hobbit".

But of course, beards should be long. Especially Thorin's, since he's the most prominent Dwarf. (See what I said about him looking not like a Dwarf, but more like Jon Snow's father... or whatever they have there.)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But of course, beards should be long. Especially Thorin's, since he's the most prominent Dwarf.

Gimli's was longer, and he's just Gimli.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Do you have a particular GoT character in mind, or is it just the general air around Thorin?

Like I said, I haven't really seen it (except for a few glimpses, trailers, pictures etc.), so it's the general air.

Yes, it could have. They could have ruined the scenery and the music. Then it would be as bad as it gets.

True. But it isn't much (what I said about that being enough for a documentary about nature, but nothing else).

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

An argument in favour of it being more epic can be demonstrated in the contrast between RTD era Doctor Who and Moffat era Doctor Who. The former was epic, the latter wanted to be more 'fairy tale' - and it just doesn't work as well especially when you are expecting 'epic'. I think to be 'fairytale' in film a modern audience just can't take it without hefty dollops of irony (see Stardust - one of my favourite films, incidentally) and I'd rather not have loads of irony in The Hobbit.

I did not expect them to make a fairytale, but there still was the chance to preserve at least a bit of the atmosphere.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, as for noses and beards - I went through that already when I first have seen the pictures of the Dwarves So I have sort of accepted that they look the way they look.

I remember thinking they'd have time to make at least Thorin's beard longer - I never accepted it the way it was. Seems they didn't (which was just to be expected). Ah well. That automatically makes Thorin less awesome.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Gimli's was longer, and he's just Gimli.

"Gimli, you're a Longbeard."
"But I'm just Gimli."

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I did not expect them to make a fairytale, but there still was the chance to preserve at least a bit of the atmosphere.

I always think of it as being more of a 'fairytale', but that's possibly davem's influence! Really, I don't know how they could uncouple it from what was portrayed in the LotR films, as that is what audiences will expect, and I have to say it's what I'd expect myself from a Peter Jackson adaptation of the book. So I'm coming to this with those expectations in mind.

I can't explain away Thorin's beard! He does look a bit like an escapee from Westeros but maybe that's not such a bad thing.

[Kuruharan]

I'm very pleased with the Dwarves as they don't look like an amorphous mass of hairy, belching, short people.

I’ve been doing some more thinking about the look of the dwarves (more in fact than I did when their look was first published) and I’m coming around to this point of view. I still think that there could be some more bits of beard but I think Lal is right and it *is* a good thing that the dwarves are not going to just be short masses of hair (we will see about the belching…I would be very surprised if there is no belching).

Looking at real world cultures where beards are customarily worn, there are all kinds of variety and lengths that are employed. They don’t just wear huge unkempt messes.

Still, all of them should have actual beards, though even if they are braided up or otherwise dealt with so they aren’t so prominent on their faces. Even a very large beard can be tied up into a pretty small package…in fact, I would imagine dwarves would have to do this frequently when they are working in the forge to keep from setting themselves on fire.

Many of the Dwarves look like 17-century Warsaw militia, but I am fine with that. At least they do not look all like Vikings, which would have been the easiest, most "mainstream" (and most stupid) way anyway

And I heartily concur with this sentiment. At least they avoided going for the drunken, rampaging Viking theme.

Besides, that's Aidan Turner, and he's no Orlando Bloom, he's capable of being perfectly 'brooding' as any Being Human fan knows.

That’s not my point. He’s Lego-like in the sense that I believe he’s there to be gurl-food.

I'm assuming even Richard Armitage's nose wasn't good enough for them

Part of the dwarf motif they seem to have selected is instead of giving them all beards is to make their noses and ears very large. The nose thing does have some basis in Tolkien…not so much the ears.

[Ben K.]

Meh, it's a trailer, the director doesn't usually make them. Check out early LOTR trailers and see how much bearing they have on the movie. The aim of this trailer was to sell an LOTR prequel to general audiences - probably why Gandalf has such a disproportionate focus, one would think the title is "The Wizard".

A great trailer for what it was trying to achieve - and Freeman feels fantastic already.

I'm wondering how much focus Gandalf will have given the additional plot. The story they're selling here is Gandalf the chess-player putting his loved ones in harms way for the greater good, somewhat unsure of the outcome. This was a major thread in the LOTR movies as well. I started to suspect with the casting of Radagast that they were going to explore this aspect of Gandalf, with Radagast having too much love of the world to achieve his mission and Saruman having too little to achieve it, in a sense mirroring the ultimately successful Gandalfs potential duality. Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but since Gandalf is essentially carrying the other half of these movies (indeed, the half that will act to prequel-ise it) I wouldn't be surprised to see the writers do that.

I'd probably like it to, since I've come to enjoy Jacksons reinterpretations of some characters.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Still, all of them should have actual beards, though even if they are braided up or otherwise dealt with so they aren’t so prominent on their faces. Even a very large beard can be tied up into a pretty small package…in fact, I would imagine dwarves would have to do this frequently when they are working in the forge to keep from setting themselves on fire.

Bombur also has no beard - it might be practical because he obviously enjoys his gravy

That’s not my point. He’s Lego-like in the sense that I believe he’s there to be gurl-food.

I actually don't mind this, because it might drive some more people into investigating Being Human which is one of the best programmes the BBC have ever made, and I'd quite like it if more people had seen it and could discuss it with me!

Has anyone else noticed the antimacassars on the back of Bilbo's chair? Perfect for him.

[Galin]

Still, all of them should have actual beards, though even if they are braided up or otherwise dealt with so they aren’t so prominent on their faces. Even a very large beard can be tied up into a pretty small package…in fact, I would imagine dwarves would have to do this frequently when they are working in the forge to keep from setting themselves on fire.

Well, there was a clan called the Firebeards


Tolkien noted some tucking and binding of beards: for example Dwalin's beard was so long it could be tucked into his belt, and Dain's folk had beards forked and plaited and thrust into their belts. In The Book of Lost Tales the beards of the Dwarves 'reach even to their toes, but the beards of the Indrafangs are the longest of all, and are forked, and they bind them about their middles when they walk abroad.'

So Tolkien seems quite aware that long beards could get in the way. Much later, compare the older Book of Lost Tales description to...

'The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their beards were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf -- unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. (...) ... they called the Enfeng or Longbeards, for their beards swept the floor before their feet.'

JRRT, The Later Quenta Silmarillion

Of course it's a bit late now to put any kind of beard on Jackson's unbearded Dwerrows -- I include Bombur as 'unbearded enough' in my opinion, given his bare chin.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Martin Freeman does make a good Bilbo - am I the only one who thinks he looks more like Pippin than Frodo?!

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Martin Freeman does make a good Bilbo - am I the only one who thinks he looks more like Pippin than Frodo?!

Nope. A friend and I were discussing this at work and decided that Bilbo takes more after his Tookish side.

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I'm very pleased with Martin Freeman as Bilbo.

Originally Posted by Ben K.

Freeman feels fantastic already.

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Martin Freeman does make a good Bilbo...

I agree, and I think his talent will cover a lot of other sins. For me, many of the problems with LotR stem from, in my humble opinion, a miscast Elijah Wood. Just imagining Freeman in the Frodo role in the original films takes them up to a whole new level for me.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

Nope. A friend and I were discussing this at work and decided that Bilbo takes more after his Tookish side.

Bilbo is second cousin twice removed to Pippin via the Baggins line, but also first cousin twice removed to him via the Took line.

Bilbo is second cousin once removed to Frodo via the Baggins line, and first cousin once removed to Frodo via the Took line.

Frodo is third cousin once removed to Pippin via the Baggins line and second cousin once removed via the Took line.

Does that help or does that make your head hurt? It does mine.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And what is up with that... One Night With a Wizard.

... and his wand?? (though Gandalf insists on calling it staff)...

I'm shocked, frankly... and it's hard to not make bad jokes but I'll stop there...

And yes, what is that tall Man, or possibly Elf, doing at Bag End? Lalwende is right, that is no dwarf, he's beardless and almost twice as tall as the rest. At a glance he looks very much like Aragorn/Viggo... Any speculation as to who that might be?

[Mithalwen]

Cameraman?

Actually just think it is Aiden Turner standing up....

[Kuruharan]

... and his wand?? (though Gandalf insists on calling it staff)...

I'm shocked, frankly... and it's hard to not make bad jokes but I'll stop there...

Galadriel wants to see Gandalf the Grey...(here it comes)...UNCLOAKED!!!!!!

Actually just think it is Aiden Turner standing up

I looked at the video again and it is Kiligolas. He just looks like a ranger because...no beard!!!! And I think he's not even "taller" than he is supposed to be per se. He appears to be at the level of the door behind him which seems to be about the normal dwarf height. When Gandalf appears in shot he is always shown as being taller than the doors. Kiligolas just doesn't appear to be a dwarf because he has no beard.

[mark12_30]

Recall the gift-scene in Fellowship where Galadriel is talking to Aragorn about Arwen. She reaches out and touches the Evenstar pendant. If you didn't have the context, that would look wierd too.

Remember the preliminary outrage at the early glimpses of the couch scene, before the Fellowship's departure, when Arwen leans over Aragorn? Despite all of our righteous indignation that this was obviously going to be some R-rated scandal, she kissed him a bit, said "Sleep", and walked off. We got ourselves all worked up for ..... not much at all. I suspect the same will be true about Galadriel's moving a strand of Gandalf's hair. It falls short of an "R" rating.

[Mithalwen]

I doubt it would be an R rated thing because of the demographic they are after it is it is just the only curiousity or perhaps peculiarity of the trailer ..otherwise nothing of any interest.. same style orchestrations, same sweeping vistas and caverns and the like same dialled in performance from McKellen... nothing much else of interest - save why on earth do they think that Bilbo wouldn't be able to ride a pony?

[davem]

Interesting fan edit of the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0550B...layer_embedded

[Lalwendë]

I've been watching a HD version of the trailer and I think that it could possibly be Aidan Turner in Bag End who looks Mannish. At any rate, I'm happy to go on thinking that it is, in order not to worry about the plot being tampered with too much...

Not sure why people are reading something saucy into the scene with Gandalf and Galadriel, I don't get that at all! In fact it makes me smile a bit because it's ripe for funny captions.

One other thing I'm happy about is that all the smoking hasn't been edited out. I've read countless things in the past ten years about how Hollywood is incredibly anti-smoking to the extent that they were going to label any films with it in as 18 cert. I'd like to think that would-be censors could credit audiences with some intelligence, that they won't be inspired by scenes of hairy men smoking unfeasibly long pipes.

[Kuruharan]

Not sure why people are reading something saucy into the scene with Gandalf and Galadriel, I don't get that at all!

Those of us who are making fun of it probably aren't taking our fears in this department too seriously...but can you look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that a (at least implied) Galadriel/Gandalf make out session would be out of the realm of possibility from the crew that brought us all elves at the Hornburg for Christmas several years back?