"The Dark Fire Will Not Avail You"

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by blantyr

The other example was Saruman. His was a relatively trivial little darkness, one that wouldn’t gather the attention of the Valar, let alone Eru. It did draw the attention of Treebeard. Again, Saruman thought he knew Fanghorn, knew its strength, and knew it would not respond to provocation. Good guys are wimps. They’ll let you walk all over them. They never fight back, can't fight back. Well, hardly ever. Saruman thought to make war on Rohan, and thought Fanghorn negligible.

Well, Saruman committed an egregious enough offense that upon the destruction of his incarnate form, his spirit was denied re-admittance to the Blessed realm. I'd say he didn't really escape the Valar's notice.

Originally Posted by blantyr

At a bottom line, basic theology, you have the old problem of the omnipotent, all knowing and benevolent God. How does such a being allow Evil to exist? Benevolence implies free choice, allowing sentients to do their own world building. This free choice cannot be taken away, yet such a God can’t just sit back and allow people like Melkor, Saruman and Sauron to take over reality. Such a God gives mortals choices, but makes just enough help available, should the heroes make the right choices, to doom a poor helpless dark lord should he over step certain boundaries.

As one of my favorite movies puts it, the idea is that in order for people to be really good, they have to be given a choice between good and evil, and choose good. The same applies to angels (Vala).

Originally Posted by blantyr

Doesn’t a dark lord deserve a few warnings? Omnipotent, all knowing, supposedly benevolent beings can be such a pain! Does anyone know just how embarrassing it is to be reduced to a shadow of malice that may never take shape and take over the world ever again?

I'd say all the major "dark lords", including the minor-league Saruman, had ample warning before their final doom (which they themselves brought about) was pronounced. And part of being good is overcoming pride, something none of those three ever seemed to grasp.