Unfinished Tales - Part One - I - Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin

[Aiwendil]

There is at least one instance of Turin making music that I can think of immediately: the Laer Cu Beleg, or Song of the Great Bow, that he sings for Beleg after his death. But I'd have to agree that one gets the impression that Tuor was the more musical of the two cousins.

However, as far as Tuor is concerned, one of the most important musical moments of his life story is probably when he sings to Earendil about the Sea in The Sil.

You may already be aware of this, but a version of this song was actually written by Tolkien and can be found in HoMe volume IV. It reflects a slightly older version of the story (the chief difference is that Ulmo appeared to Tuor in Nan Tathren rather than Nevrast), but it's quite a nice poem. I tried to set it to music once, but found it hard to get a handle on the formal structure of the song, since the poem consists of couplets without stanzaic divisions.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

There is at least one instance of Turin making music that I can think of immediately: the Laer Cu Beleg, or Song of the Great Bow, that he sings for Beleg after his death. But I'd have to agree that one gets the impression that Tuor was the more musical of the two cousins.

Ah, forgot about the lament for Beleg.
It's notable, though, that to Túrin music seems to be associated with negative emotions only, whereas Tuor naturally seems to turn to it for comfort and confidence.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

There is at least one instance of Turin making music that I can think of immediately: the Laer Cu Beleg, or Song of the Great Bow, that he sings for Beleg after his death.

That's the one I was talking about in my previous post.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

You may already be aware of this, but a version of this song was actually written by Tolkien and can be found in HoMe volume IV. It reflects a slightly older version of the story (the chief difference is that Ulmo appeared to Tuor in Nan Tathren rather than Nevrast), but it's quite a nice poem. I tried to set it to music once, but found it hard to get a handle on the formal structure of the song, since the poem consists of couplets without stanzaic divisions.

I wasn't aware of that, but it's one more reason to read the HOMEs.

Originally Posted by Inzil

It's notable, though, that to Túrin music seems to be associated with negative emotions only, whereas Tuor naturally seems to turn to it for comfort and confidence.

True point. In general, Turin is not very artistic, except for the art of fighting and hunting (or escaping from hunt) in the woods. He lacks the patience. Is music related to patience?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Is music related to patience?

It is if you practice!

[mhagain]

It's amazing how the little things strike you in re-readings.

And high and noble as was Elemmakil, greater and more lordly was Ecthelion, Lord of the Fountains, at that time Warden of the Great Gate. All in silver was he clad, and upon his shining helm there was set a spike of steel pointed with a diamond...

What's incredible here is that Tolkien very obviously still had the old idea of how Ecthelion killed Gothmog in mind while writing this; that's as clear a Chekhov's Gun (Chekhov's Spike?) as any. Whether it would have survived in revisions if Tolkien had ever gotten round to writing the actual scene is of course unknown, but to see such an old concept bubble to the surface again is quite remarkable.

[Galin]

Hey I thought I was the only reader who noticed Ecthelion's spiked helm in the much later, 1950s re-write.



But this brings up the issue (well not really but I'm bringing it up anyway) about employing the early Fall of Gondolin in the 'world' of The Lord of the Rings. Ack, more canon concerns.

For example, some have argued that Orcrist possibly belongs in the hands of Ecthelion, as, based on the initial assumption that Orcrist belongs to one of the leaders of the named houses, the argument then eliminates various leaders of these Houses based on the early set of descriptions found in the Fall of Gondolin version printed in The Book of Lost Tales, descriptions that (in my opinion) we have no real idea Tolkien was going to necessarily keep decades later.

Well 'possibly'... but for myself I don't find this argument, given this particular mix of texts, very compelling.

Decades later, when Tolkien began to re-write the long prose Fall of Gondolin in the early 1950s, as noted the reader actually meets Ecthelion before the story is abandoned: 'All in silver was he clad, and upon his shining helm there was set a spike of steel pointed with a diamond; and as his esquire took his shield it shimmered as if it were bedewed with drops of rain, that were indeed a thousand studs of crystal.'

No mention of a sword named Orcrist, at least here; which sword now existed in Tolkien's imagination anyway. Was it going to be given to Ecthelion in the 1950s and noted later in the tale? Who knows? We find out some later details due to associated notes, like for example...

A) Turgon was going to be the tallest person in the world save Thingol -- yet according to even later text, Argon was seemingly taller than Turgon however. And according to the early Fall of Gondolin someone named 'Penlod' was 'tallest of Gnomes'.

B) Turgon would appear with 'a white and gold sword in a ruel-bone [ivory] sheath'

This wasn't noted in the early version. Anyway I'll pick a passage where the two stories can be compared:

Early FOG: Tuor and Voronwe find the outer gate, and entering it find a way, dark, rough going and circuituous, full of fearsome echoes, and they ran at times, fearing Melko's goblins, till they perceived it was the deceit of the place. And making for a gleam of light they came to another gate, through which they passed into the sunlight, but instantly a great gong rang out and they were surrounded by 'warriors in steel', and then they meet the Chief of the Guard of the Gondothlim, who tells them the names of Gondolin and allows them to pass on to the city, and Tuor and Voronwe now pass over the plain to the city.


1950s FOG [or 'Later Tuor']: Tuor and Voronwe find the outer 'gate', entering it there was no light, but all was at first silent, until Voronwe spoke, which awoke echoes that were enlarged and multiplied, and when the echoes died a voice was heard in the Elven-tongue commanding them not to stir. Elemmakil [Captain of the Guard] speaks to them, looks at them in the light of his lamp, and Noldor 'mail-clad and armed' stepped out of the darkness, and they were led to the wooden gate -- the first of various gates of course.

So the two versions, separated by decades of real time [in Tolkien's life] are alike in ways, but not wholly alike in detail, and in some ways are notably different. Christopher Tolkien comments about the array of the Gondothlim, for instance: 'Doubtless, if my father had continued the later Tuor, much would have re-emerged, however changed, if we judge by the rich 'heraldic' descriptions of the great gates and their guards in the Orfalch Echor.' Christopher Tolkien, commentary, The Array of the Gondothlim, The Fall of Gondolin, The Book of Lost Tales II

In short I would agree that Ecthelion was 'probably' still going to spike his Balrog.

Not necessarily I guess, but it's too interesting to me that Tolkien should think to note the detail... at this point.

Pun probably intended

On that note, anyone read the Alex Lewis version?

[VarTalman]

Hey folks,
We have from the Bible an account of Jonah being sent to the great city outside the land of Israel. He is sent from the God of the Sea as is Tuor. He takes a hidden journey in a fish to the shore and goes to Nineveh preaching profound inspired words greater than man's speech. The city is great and requires a three-day journey through it - Jonah goes preaching the word. There is also parallel that the king acknowledges that this wiry prophet has been sent from God to the lost city...

I imagine Tolkien had a tough time finishing this story because Jonah ends with a city saved and God's prophet complaining. Makes for a tough ending to so well-told a tale.

I believe Tolkien's muse is the Bible account beginning to end. These unfinished stories could be various retellings of biblical accounts in Middle-Earth lore. If this is the key, their endings could potentially be deciphered.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by VarTalman

Hey folks,
We have from the Bible an account of Jonah being sent to the great city outside the land of Israel. He is sent from the God of the Sea as is Tuor. He takes a hidden journey in a fish to the shore and goes to Nineveh preaching profound inspired words greater than man's speech. The city is great and requires a three-day journey through it - Jonah goes preaching the word. There is also parallel that the king acknowledges that this wiry prophet has been sent from God to the lost city...

I imagine Tolkien had a tough time finishing this story because Jonah ends with a city saved and God's prophet complaining. Makes for a tough ending to so well-told a tale.

I believe Tolkien's muse is the Bible account beginning to end. These unfinished stories could be various retellings of biblical accounts in Middle-Earth lore. If this is the key, their endings could potentially be deciphered.

Greetings, VarTalman,

I've never made a connection between Tuor's tale and Jonah's before, and thinking about it I can definitely see some connections. Voronwë coming ashore miraculously, alone out of a whole crew, is definitely evocative--though different enough that I would certainly hesitate to say inspired, let alone a retelling--and coupled with the fact that someone in the tale is being sent as an emissary to a doomed city, certainly makes points of comparison worth exploring.

But that's a long way from saying "Tolkien's muse is the Bible account beginning to end," and on that point I would have to protest vehemently. Two major elements of Jonah's tall are drastically lacking:

1.) Tuor and Voronwë are both willing to do Ulmo's bidding, whereas the first act of Jonah's story--and the whole reason the giant fish is involved in the first place--is because Jonah does not want to go to Nineveh. While a touch of reluctance (but nothing to the extent of Jonah) MIGHT be argued for Voronwë, I don't see how we can really say that about Tuor.

2.) Nineveh repents. Now, there is the side issue that Ulmo isn't sending a messenger to Gondolin because Gondolin is full of sinners, but I'll grant you that he IS trying to save them, so the parallel exists; but Gondolin does NOT heed the message of Ulmo. Nineveh is saved, but the destruction prophesied for Gondolin most certainly comes about--and you can't say that Tolkien was going to rewrite this version of the story to be more in accord with the Biblical tale. Not only is there not a scrap of evidence he ever countenanced changing one of the major tales of the legendarium so drastically, Gondolin's fall was already "in print" in The Hobbit and in the finished (though not yet published) Lord of the Rings--and this was to be part of a Silmarillion that he still hoped to see published WITH The Lord of the Rings.

So, as a blanket statement, the idea that Tolkien was working with the Book of Jonah as his primary inspiration is one that I have to reject. But I could certainly have been in the leafmould of influences on him, and if it is, perhaps more parallels could be unearthed. The last act of Jonah's story, where he has to learn his second lesson of the story, that God is willing to save all people--even the pagan, hated, Ninevites--seems to have no parallel in any version of Tuor's tale, unless it is in the fact that Ulmo contemplates helping the Gondolindrim at all, since they ought to fall under the Curse.