WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm more thinking just different meanings. By agreeable I assume you meant I was mimicking what people were saying, which to me, is flat out untrue. Sounds like though you say I'm coming off as "Mr. Nice Guy" though? Trying to sweet talk people with calmness.

The second is what I mean, and I said it also back then, I think I used words like "honey-tongued" or something. So yes, when I say "Mr. Agreeable", I mean by that "not responding aggressively, or even not questioning people so much in general, but acting more like 'yes, my friend, you have a good point'".

You will probably say this makes me agreeable, but I do admit to not giving any substantial look at Nerwen. That mostly comes from a history of being unable to figure her out and then flat out fear. My general impression, based on yesterday, is that G55 was acting like a loon and I can't find suspicion against Nerwen for that carnival show. G55 did a good job making people think she was a wolf. And also, because of G55's eratic behavior, it put Nerwen in a defensive position, which has carried over to the suspicion today.

The last sentence is true and something worth thinking about. However, the same way indeed you should not probably just go over Nerwen's posts - or others' suspicions against her, more like - with the attitude "nah, this is all just born out of yesterDay, I know she is being wronged here, I don't even need to consider whether it does not have any real basis" (I'm saying that because I know from experience it's easy to do that). But yes, well, balance of opinions needs to be maintained.

Now I have looked at the voting lists, I will maybe think about them still for a while just in case I don't get some brilliant idea... while doing that, I have also actually reread large parts of the thread. Looking at it, I am now feeling more on the "I think nobody is a Wolf" side - or in fact, I started thinking how, erm, hilarious it would be if the Wolves were Laeko and Azura (and somebody who keeps just hiding well, but then again, not sure if there is anybody exactly like that right now). But I guess (I hope) nobody (meaning: no Wolf pack) could be that lucky (to end up in such a constellation). Aside from that, I would be inclined to think Sally's death was carefully planned, and somehow it seems difficult to imagine the coordination with group of the "hiding" kind.

If I wanted to look at the "worst" votes overall I think it could be for example Kit's, or at least the yesterDay's one, in the start, I don't quite like it, as the first (the other one was this triple-cross, so who knows what to make of it). There are some people of whom there are some missing votes (aside from Laeko and Azura, there's Greenie who already voted toDay but did not vote on Day 1, however with explanation), which makes them more difficult to analyse.

Last of all, once again re-read some quotes of Nerwen, and even now with bearing what Boro said in mind, some of those still look a bit Wolvish, like (to Gal):

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And should you happen to turn out innocent– which is seeming less and less likely– my excuse would of course be that I thought you were probably a wolf, from your conduct. Which I do.

There are these "pre-emptive" words. Once again one could start asking if a Wolf would so "bluntly" post something like that. But then again, why would an innocent say that, too?

I think I might still take a look at Inzil - there is still the possibility of him being "the slippery one" and the TEW thing being really a preemptive strike based on fear of the Seer who dreamt of Zil, and then I'll see about my vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm. I don't know about Zil. Sort of dark area for me, still too much. I have also reread some posts by Greenie, now I am inclined to count her among the innocent.

Of all people, Nerwen still looks to me the most voteworthy, but it would be really nice if she still posted at least once before I have to go, so that I could compare some "fresh" posts of hers, too.

Okay, will be back in some time - let's say fifteen, twenty minutes - and then vote, because it is getting close to 3 AM here. Heck, am I supposed to start to be like Nogrod, since we don't have him in this game?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh come on, that was nearly half an hour (or more by the time I finish this...). If there are any Wolves lurking around and avoiding posting, I hope they are lynched a painful lynch.

Zil definitely deserves a second look, for future reference - he is sort of floating on the edge of the debate, adding a bit here and there, very sort of "defensive" or maybe rather "pre-emptive", that's better word - very careful in pointing out how he did not want to vote Pitch, how he was freaked out by other people voting Pitch too (why did you vote him, then?), next Day immediately making sure he posts explanations as to why did he vote him, yesterDay making a vote when the bandwagon was already running smoothly, making several posts with little substance or lot of uncertainity, like this:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.
(...)
Greenie seems sharp somehow. Not really sure what I mean by that, but she makes sense and gives me pause at the same time.

= saying nothing, and yet this was quite a substantial portion of his post...

And so on. But nevertheless, this is all to remark that it might be good to look at him. As for my current vote, I will go with my original option, that is,

++Nerwen

And good Night, village.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Zil definitely deserves a second look, for future reference - he is sort of floating on the edge of the debate, adding a bit here and there, very sort of "defensive" or maybe rather "pre-emptive", that's better word - very careful in pointing out how he did not want to vote Pitch, how he was freaked out by other people voting Pitch too (why did you vote him, then?)

I answered already that here.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

next Day immediately making sure he posts explanations as to why did he vote him, yesterDay making a vote when the bandwagon was already running smoothly, making several posts with little substance or lot of uncertainity, like this:

As a matter of fact, I have been rather uncertain. As for why I explained things the way I did, see here.

[Nerwen]

Legate–

I've had this. Once again– I put forward the "Boro theory" early in the day, and did not continue after Greenie pointed out the discrepancy.

I did not "push it" at any point. You, on the other hand, have constantly been repeating that I have been in an apparent attempt to hypnotise the village into thinking this must be the case.

It has gone past the point where I can believe it an innocent mistake.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and similarly the repetition of "she's so jumpy" (i.e. supposedly wolvish.) Yeah, because I argued against you and objected to your weirdly over-the-top aggression. Oh, yes, how very terribly evil of me, Legate.

[Kitanna]

Well, I need to vote now and go to bed. I've been wrong about three of my highest suspects. I hope I get it right this time.

++ Legate

I've stated my reasons earlier. I'm sorry I don't have time to restate them.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think this actually looks more like a coded list than anything Sally posted– note all the "undecideds" and "not sure about alignments". It is true that only one person (Kath) is in the "good vibes" category, but Seers don't always list the people they know of together– too much of a giveaway– and I'd accept Legate's being "fine this far" as a near-equivalent.

I'm just wondering why the wolves bit on Sally instead.

Well, let's see. I don't see anything really noteworthy about Greenie's list there. It is a bit curious that while Sally had expressed suspicion of you, it was Greenie who had voted for you Day 2. It doesn't mean I don't have my doubts about you, but it's food for thought.

And Boro, I'm not going to line by line go through your analysis of me. If it seems off that I made a point of saying what I did and why, so be it. When I stressed that I had not only been involved in the Pitch-wagon but had been the first vote as well, my intention was to be fair. I'm not worried about my actions. Let people take them as they will.

x/d with Legate

[Boromir88]

Day 1

First post with substance is #48 and about Pitch.

Thing is, on previous showing, Bom is a very easy target. (Hope you don't mind my saying that, Bom.) Pitch knows this well, even if you don't– which does make me wonder about him, yes it does. And then, his switching to G55, also a novice player with a bit of a history of attracting suspicion– hmmn.

On the other hand, his cases on both of them were sound enough, by Day One standards– and someone had to get the ball rolling...

Looks reasonable. Yes, there is the "suspecting" and "maybe not" look. But it's a fair point on Pitch's actions and looks more like a Lommy flip-flopping, since she brings up a good counter argument.

#52 is

I was pointing out his perhaps opportunistic choice of targets– so yes, I suppose that's "casting suspicion". Is that a problem?

Less material = quicker analysis. It's easier, but lazier. And generally less useful, since mostly you're just pointing out what anyone else could see at a glance.

Nerwen being straight forward. Maybe some have an issue with the tone, but she's never been one to shy away from being blunt.

#60, remarks on the strangeness of the Pitch-wagon and notices G55 mixed up Pitch and Bom. G55 was trying to refer to the time when there was some heat between Bom and me, but it looked like she was saying Pitch and me.

#64, agrees that Kath's vote for sally was suspect and could vote for Kath, because she didn't want a universal bandwagon against Pitch.

I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

I'll have to wait until I go through Day 2 more thorougly, until I can get a clearer view on the above quote. because I think Nerwen's post here was one of the bigger reasons G55 was suspicious of Nerwen yesterday.

I definitely recall G55 giving "spite" as a reason of voting Pitch on Day 1. So, I don't know how Nerwen stating she didn't want a universal bandwagon, and that Kath's vote did look suspicious looks any worse than G55's Day 1 vote.

Day 2

#87, is Nerwen's conclusions on why TEW was killed. I didn't see much of a conclusion, more a statement of all the possible explanations. It would be a long quote, so here's the post. Although, in this post, she seemed to favor the argument that TEW was killed because the wolves thought he was the seer.

#94, several things here. First she brings up TEW would not have been high on her kill list (Legate questions who would be later, and Nerwen gives it). Again, Nerwen is not one to shy from at least giving blunt answers.

G55 said if the wolves thought TEW was the Ranger or Hunter, they could have just got him lynched. Nerwen replied:

Not really– that kind of thing can backfire pretty badly. Gifteds do have a nasty habit of revealing on the way to the gallows, after all.

And then she tells Legate that this G55 quote looks like nightly wolf communications:

Originally Posted by G55

I am very surprised that they killed TEW. He got a couple votes yesterDay, and with a bit of persuation could have easily been lynched toDay. My conclusion: why should they waste a Nightkill on him when they could have easily got rid of him the next Day? Did they really think he was a gifted? Or, perhaps, just to stirr something up....

If this was the beginning of Nerwen's suspicions against G55 then I think it looks reasonable. Granted, Nerwen is a sly player to accuse reasonably, especially when someone is getting as crazy acting as G55 got yesterday.

Oh man, I forgot how long these took. If it does any good I'll continue going through them, but Nerwen's posted more than anyone else and I'm getting a bit exhausted.

My conclusion before the end of the Day 2 shenanigans is Nerwen's been blunt and combative (as usual), so doesn't tell me much on her role. Although, I hardly think G55 had good suspicions against Nerwen and so I'm not understanding the suspicions now. But let me look at Greenie, Legate and some other reasons given today more.

(I better have crossed since I came back after Inzil's post following Legate's flood posting)