Physiques

[Galin]

The Eldar did not play basketball, because they could not stand anything 'foul'.

Ahem. sorry.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galin

The Eldar did not play basketball, because they could not stand anything 'foul'.

Sure they did. Nobody could ring a three-pointer like ElRond.

I always thought Gandalf to have been around "average" height for Men in Middle-earth, say about 5'11.

[Galin]

Yes 'at least 5 ft 6' is a bit surprising, but Gandalf was referred to as a 'little old man' in The hobbit too -- until a revision in 1966 anyway, when he became an old man, for whatever reason.

Gandalf doesn't appear to have embiggened much however, if at all, even noting the revision

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galin

The Eldar did not play basketball, because they could not stand anything 'foul'.

I would think they could play, they would just have to play very conservatively in order to avoid violating any rules.

[Galadriel55]

No, no, no. They learned enough about playing with round objects in the First Age.

As the saying goes, they prefer not to play with fi... balls.

[Galin]

Here's a question that no one yet at any other forum (those where I asked) has cared to comment on

But one never knows, so here goes: I'm wondering about an early conception, but I'm not sure one needs to have necessarily read The History of Middle-Earth series to comment: in very early description from The Book of Lost Tales:

'Tis written that in those days the fathers of the fathers of Men were of less stature than Men now are, and the children of Elfinesse of greater growth, yet was Tuor taller than any that stood there. Indeed the Gondothlim were not bent of back as some of their unhappy kin became, labouring without rest at delving and hammering for Melko, but small were they and slender and very lithe.'

JRRT, The Book of Lost Tales, The Fall of Gondolin

It's also noted that the Noldoli that came forth to see Tuor marvelled at his stature and gaunt limbs.


So, how do folks interpret that? Can it be used to guess how tall Tuor might be, and how small the Gnomes (Noldoli) were?

[Galadriel55]

Tuor remained very tall even in the published COH (see post#12)... As for the Noldoli, I guess they were smaller than the other Elves...

It could also mean that Tuor was broader and more, I guess, pillar-like. Elves were more elegant, perhaps, and the difference in height wasn't that great, just emphasised by these features...

I don't know. But that's my interpretation.

[Galin]

Thanks Galadriel! my first response and if I can ask a follow-up, do you (or anyone) think that this part...

'Tis written that in those days the fathers of the fathers of Men were of less stature than Men now are, and the children of Elfinesse of greater growth,...'

... means we can guess that Tuor was shorter than the average man of Tolkien's day, yet still taller than the Noldoli back when Gondolin existed?

Or is the reader not meant to employ this information in this way?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galin

and if I can ask a follow-up, do you (or anyone) think that this part...


... means we can guess that Tuor was shorter than the average man of Tolkien's day, yet still taller than the Noldoli back when Gondolin existed?

It certainly seems so at first sight. Yet, when I think about it, The Sil isn't the book to compare "our" world with ME. TH has some comparissons, LOTR has very few, and mostly in the Shire chapters (eg, I remember something in FOTR about hobbits liking mushrooms even more than we do). But Sil seems strictly ME. If any comparisons are made, they are made with the SA and TA.

You said that it's a very early draft. So I'm guessing that at the time the Noldoli were more like Dwarves than Elves as we know them from the published works. Perhaps they were the shorter "kind" of Elves - compared to, say, the Vanyar (I don't know if Vanyar even existed at that stage...). And Men could be shorter than Men of the Second Age, for instance...

I don't know how to answer your question. I mean, it's clearly yes, but it's just not! It just doesn't work in the legendarium as I'm used to knowing it!