Silmarillion - Chapter 21 - Of Túrin Turambar

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

The story of Túrin is one of the key legends around which the Silmarillion is constructed, so I can't hope to do justice to it in the time I have at my disposal. Fortunately rather a lot of what I have to say is redundant, since Tom Shippey has already dealt with it in The Road to Middle Earth. I don't see any reason to argue with his main argument that Túrin's story is one of tension between the meanings of 'doom' as judgement and as ill fate. In the story of the Children of Húrin more than anywhere else in the matter of Middle Earth, Tolkien is exploring the balance between fate and free will as they were addressed in the early and high middle ages. Beowulf tells Unferth:

Wyrd oft nereð
unfægne eorl, þonne his ellen deah.

Fate often spares
an undoomed lord, when his courage avails

Gisli's Saga sums up its protagonist by extolling his virtues and wryly cursing his luck.

Lýkur þar nú ævi Gísla og er það alsagt að hann hefur hinn mesti hreystimaður verið þó að hann væri eigi í öllum hlutum gæfumaður.

There now ends Gisli's life, and it has always been said he was the greatest champion - though he was not lucky in all things.

Leaving aside the heroic, Boethius addresses the relationship between divine foreknowledge and predestination, and Alfred the Great expands on the idea in his translation of De Consolatione Philosophiae by adding his own metaphor of a wagon wheel.

These are only three rather obvious examples. Old English and Old Norse writings are full of references to fate, luck and doom; just as Christian works often address the apparent contradiction that God can know what will happen despite each person's freedom to choose any path. When Tolkien approached the same issue it gave rise to his starkest and most brutal story, and the closest of any of his legends to the pagan North.

Much of what Túrin suffers is his own fault. His own pride, inherited from the equally pig-headed Morwen leads him repeatedly to choose the worst course of action in the face of good advice, and the chief points at which he does this have been pointed out. In constant tension with this theme, however, there is a persistent bad luck that causes every stroke he makes to turn awry. What causes Saeros to taunt Túrin with exactly the image most likely to enrage him? Why does Saeros fall into a chasm instead of escaping or tripping over? Why does one of Túrin's men decide to shoot at Mîm's sons? What causes Beleg's knife to slip? Why is it that Túrin meets with Níenor of all places at Haudh-en-Elleth? At times, the litany of evil coincidence comes very close to malign fate, just as Gisli's ill luck dooms him in spite of his accomplishments. To his great credit, Tolkien never gives us a straight answer to the central question: does Morgoth's curse destroy Húrin's family or do they destroy themselves? Typically the closest he comes to a conclusion on the subject is in Gwindor's comment on the nature of names: "The doom lies in yourself, not in your name". However, it is worth noting that whenever his opponents play into Morgoth's hands it is when their behaviour is most like his own.

Another interesting point is that despite his many failures, Túrin remains a hero. At several stages in the development of this story Tolkien foresaw a revenge for him at the last battle, and he is still one of "the mighty Elf-friends of old" to Elrond in LR. Although by far the darkest of Tolkien's heroes, he never becomes as corrupt as does Fëanor; and ultimately he succeeds in his mother's ambition for him: he is never a slave.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

...pig-headed Morwen...

I hope you meant big-headed Morwen...

Another interesting point is that despite his many failures, Túrin remains a hero.

Heroes aren't necessarily successful. But they still may be heroes.

And that reminds me. At one point, I believe when Turin was ruling at Amon Rudh, Morgoth was afraid that he will overpower the curse. This might have been the most successful time in his life.

But it brings up a question: did Morgoth have faith in his own curses?

Although by far the darkest of Tolkien's heroes, he never becomes as corrupt as does Fëanor; and ultimately he succeeds in his mother's ambition for him: he is never a slave.

He "fares free". Now that you mention that, I think that there is a deeper meaning behind those words.

I think we can equal Turin and Feanor in this sense: they are both, in a way, legendary. And I think that Feanor is more fey than corrupt - as is Turin.


I sometimes wonder why Turin calls himself Turambar in Brethil. Does he wish to defy his fate? Does he think that he rose above it? I used to think that this particular name choice was made on purpose by Tolkien to create the irony of "Master of Doom, by Doom mastered".

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I hope you meant big-headed Morwen...

Well, I hardly feel qualified to speak on the masterful Squatter's behalf, but my own bias leads me to conclude that he could only have possibly meant "pig-headed" (as in "stubborn, pig-headed, Morwen")--although "big-headed" isn't implausible, I suppose.

Actually, it's funny... I think I feel about Morwen the way Inzil feels about Túrin--and the reason it's funny is because Tolkien is essentially doing the same thing with both characters: both are over-proud, both are stubborn to the point of refusing advice the reader KNOWS they ought to take, and both are ultimately sympathetic characters in their tragedy.

But for whatever reason, Morwen bothers me more than Túrin--maybe it's because Túrin is a child when this ill-fortune starts, whereas Morwen was a grown woman--though that might not be fair of me. After all, Morwen had to flee HER homeland as a child, when the Bragollach drove the refugees of the House of Bëor into Dor-Lómin, and she also lost her father in the war to Morgoth, one of the band of Barahir.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Surely by now everyone knows that I preview my posts several times before posting them.

Originally Posted by reference.com

pig·head·ed   [pig-hed-id]
adjective
stupidly obstinate; stubborn: pigheaded resistance.

Although the most complete version of this story is the Narn I Hîn Húrin, and obviously these days we have CoH, my favourite versions are still those in HME 3.

O! Morwen my mother, why makest me go?
The hills are hateful, where hope is lost;
O! Morwen my mother, I am meshed in tears
for grim are the hills and my home is gone.'
And there came his cries, calling faintly
down the dark alleys of the dreary trees,
that one there weeping weary on the threshold
heard how the hills said 'my home is gone.'

Tolkien's vision of Morwen and Túrin at their parting in Hithlum remained consistent. In the Narn, she grips the door-post until her fingers bleed (a scene very reminiscent of the family sagas), yet throughout the revisions her pride prevents her from accepting Thingol's offer of refuge. In the alliterative Lay, she cannot face being "the alms-guest of others" and would rather suffer the indignities of occupation, and separation from Túrin. The suffering she inflicts, not least on herself, is unnecessary. It should also be remembered that pride - her chief motivation in this - is an attribute of the devil. As Tolkien was doubtless aware, one of the descriptions of Satan in the Old English Genesis is se engel ofermodes ('the angel of pride'). He and the Anglo-Saxon poet were co-religionists, and would probably have agreed that no good can come of following Satan's example.

However, Morwen remains a sympathetic and tragic character. At least one reason for her remaining in Hithlum for so long is that she hopes against reason that Húrin will return, and her later headlong flight from Doriath in search of Túrin is motivated by love and concern for him. Her meeting with Húrin in the next chapter is one of the best things Tolkien ever wrote. Nonetheless, the refusal to take advice, the insistence on following one's own immediate will without thought, these are a source of tragedy time and again in the Silmarillion. When we consider the tragedy of Húrin's family alongside the story of Tuor this theme becomes even clearer. Tolkien consistently militates against willful pride, against action without counsel, against unilateral decisions. There are obvious religious reasons for this, but I'm given to wonder if there may not be something deeper that motivates this strand of the legendarium.

[Galadriel55]

I get what you're saying with Morwen being overstubborn (though this does not ruin her high position in my "opinion ranks"! ). And then, you could say that Nienor is partially responsible for her and Turin's suicidal end, because she was stubborn enough not to go back to Doriath.


A thought invaded to my mind a short while ago. It is quite ironical (yes, more of that) that Hurin's kin do almost as much, if not as much, damage in a lifetime than the Doom of the Noldor in a couple hundred years. Nargothrond fell when all of them (except for Lalaith, of course) were still alive. And shortly after their end - Doriath, followed by Gondolin. All of these losses were caused directly in Nargothrond's case and indirectly for the other two by the Curse, or by the actions of the family (if you prefer it that way).


But the good thing about it is that Morgoth's Curse, like all his other deeds, ultimately turned against him. If it wasn't for the sac of Doriath and Gondolin, Earendil and Elwing would never have met! And then Earendil would never have gotten the Silmaril that helped him get to Aman. So Morgoth created the perfect circumstances for his own destruction.


ETA: I forgot to say this. "Fixed idea" - I think tht this could be said about many characters from the Narn. And it does relate to stubborness. But sometimes you can't tell one from the other. For example, when Morwen against all councel leaves Doriath to look for Turin, I think it's more of a fixed idea than simply "pig-headed-ness".

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But the good thing about it is that Morgoth's Curse, like all his other deeds, ultimately turned against him. If it wasn't for the sac of Doriath and Gondolin, Earendil and Elwing would never have met! And then Earendil would never have gotten the Silmaril that helped him get to Aman. So Morgoth created the perfect circumstances for his own destruction.

Which goes back to Eru's admonition to Melkor early on, that all he did ultimately was in accord with the design of the One. But that's another thread.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

ETA: I forgot to say this. "Fixed idea" - I think tht this could be said about many characters from the Narn. And it does relate to stubborness. But sometimes you can't tell one from the other. For example, when Morwen against all councel leaves Doriath to look for Turin, I think it's more of a fixed idea than simply "pig-headed-ness".

Well, since the definition of stubborn is "fixed or set in purpose or opinion; resolute", and pig-headed is defined as "stupidly obstinate; stubborn", Morwen was "pig-headed" anyway.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, since the definition of stubborn is "fixed or set in purpose or opinion; resolute", and pig-headed is defined as "stupidly obstinate; stubborn", Morwen was "pig-headed" anyway.

I was trying to differentiate between the concious kind of stubborn when you know exactly what you're doing, and the, erm, "mental" kind of stubborn, when you see the final destination and disregard all and all that is not in the direct path. It's not even an obsession anymore, it's a mania.

Originally Posted by Dictionary

FIXED IDEA: A frozen thought in the mind functioning as a "truth" that the person will automatically act on without thinking about it.

Originally Posted by Another Dictionary

FIXED IDEA: a persistent or obsessing idea, often delusional, that can, in extreme form, be a symptom of psychosis.

So, in other words, Morwen is going crazy. Gradually. (Well, I wasn't going to say that, and I don't want to say that, but it's the best way I can illustrate it to you.)

She's in her right mind when she sends Turin away but refuses to go herself. She's starting to crack up when she finds out in Doriath that Turin is gone. And it goes downhill from there. By the time she met Hurin, "her eyes were wild now, and full of fear", and all that is left in them is the light that she was known for. The only bit of sanity, perhaps? And all she can talk about it her life-long obsession, or, as I would prefer to call it, "fixed idea" - finding her family.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

Tolkien consistently militates against willful pride, against action without counsel, against unilateral decisions. There are obvious religious reasons for this, but I'm given to wonder if there may not be something deeper that motivates this strand of the legendarium.

Would you care to elaborate? Do you mean there is something in the depiction of Morwen that involves his own personal relationship with his mother? Or do you mean something more general about his ideas concerning pride?