The Valley Forge - WW LXXXVII - Admin Thread

[Pitchwife]

I've already apologized to Foley for messing up her game like that, but here's to the Forge: you played a great game, and I do feel rather rotten for the way I handled my role. Nerwen, I hope you'll be able to forgive me eventually.

Originally Posted by Rikae

At any rate, I'd like to point out that although the village won, Pitch didn't, and considering that he didn't exactly abide by the spirit of the rules I'm rather proud of helping to ensure that. No hard feelings, Pitch, but you know it's true.

No hard feelings at all - that's why I said I was OK with a double lynch on D3. My Role PM said I had to survive in order to win, and I didn't feel I'd deserved that.

Things would probably have gone differently if Foley had picked a player with a bit more nerves to be the KD. Truth to be told, my first reaction to reading my Role PM was to scream "I hate you!" (Not really, Foley.) I expected the Forge would see through me and off me after about two Days or so at the latest.

Night 1 began, and there was no PMing at all among the Forge except G55 wondering why everybody was so quiet and Bom apologizing that he'd forgotten shortly before the Day started. Not knowing the true reason for this silence, I got paranoid that Nerwen and Rikae were waiting for the KD to give himself away by being too eager to talk (à la the "first three posters" meme) and started wondering whether part of the Forge were conspiring in secret. Crazy, yes, but knowing you have something to hide can do strange things to the mind.

Then it turned out that Rikae had plain forgotten too, and I went into D1 relieved and ready to lie low and play by ear. Along comes tp and his plan of infamous genius, causing me to make that priceless slip about the KD's winning condition in my first post which I'm sure some of the Forge must have noticed, especially as tp was so kind to point it out in his reply for all to see, and I thought "Crap, they'll have my number now, I'm dead". Then I remembered that I could get the Watchdwarf to protect me and figured out that they wouldn't be able to kill me without painting the Forge brand on their own doors, and the rest is history.

The Night after Bom's lynch, I initially tried to pretend I had suspected him to be the KD, but of course they were too clever to buy that. That Night, the rules were changed so that the KD wouldn't be revealed at death, and the Forge cut me off from PMs (both with my consent) in an attempt to restore some balance to the game. Unfortunately, that turned out not be enough.

As to the question of hints and revealing, I find picking up hints rather difficult myself, so I had a hard time estimating how obvious or cryptic I was being in the eyes of the ordos. I was confident that phantom had guessed me early on D1, and I did of course notice the spreading trust in me during D2, but I'm not sure whether e.g. Mith really had no idea what was going on at the end of the Day or just pretended for the sake of fairness (I suspect the latter, though).

By the way, did nobody ever consider that I could be the Sweetheart acting as a mouthpiece for the real KD while he was lying low? (The outcome would have been the same, of course.)

The Forge's attempt to frame me as a faker by having Rikae accuse me and then killing her at Night was a stroke of genius, and honestly, I fully expected it would succeed and I would find myself lynched on D3, especially after phantom's 'joke vote' at DL D3 - I had no way of knowing whether you were serious, phantom, and there was a chance you'd go Zeus on me and help the Forgers lynch me for the sake of balance.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Finally, if everything is going your way, and you do choose to push the boundaries, I think it behoves you to show some humility about it. I'm serious, Pitch– I'm really not happy about all that dripping sarcasm towards us on Day Two. It wasn't like you were a real Seer who had earned your knowledge through dream-choices– you'd just been handed it. That's nothing to gloat about.

I concede. I let the pure elation of knowing and being trusted (both which doesn't happen to me all that often in WW) carry me away there in a way which must have been rather unsufferabe. You played admirably, and I'm sorry for offending you.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

I was the Sweet Heart. I felt so horrible proposing the idea of the double lynching, but I thought it better than just killing Pitch, which is where it seemed to be going. I hope he forgives the compromising actions of his SH.

No problem at all, Sweetie, that was a good move. But I'm curious why we never got to talk - didn't you guess me, or did you decide to let me stew in my own juice?

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

No problem at all, Sweetie, that was a good move. But I'm curious why we never got to talk - didn't you guess me, or did you decide to let me stew in my own juice?

First night I guessed Zil and Nerwen (it was random, I picked the first two on the list), second night I guessed Boro and Eruhen (I guess I'm really bad at picking up hints...) and third night I guessed you and Mith, though by then there wasn't a doubt in my mind. Did Foley not tell you that I guessed you the third night? She had informed me that no conversation would take place the first night I found you, but I asked her to at least inform you that I had successfully found you, and I have no idea if she did.

As for letting you stew in your own juice, since I suggested double-lynching, I might have been trying to not get involved.

Edit: (just adding some stuff) Someone suggested taking out the SH for purposes of making it more fair, but I really had no hand in the unfairness till the last day, and by then I would say I had little effect. I like the SH idea, other places should be balances though. Maybe not having the NWD-KD connection?

[Mithalwen]

No, I was genuinely clueness. I hate cliquey in jokes between groups of players and ignored all that stuff and it didn't occur that the modfire couldn't happen. I must just be thick or gullible but I just tried ot play with a straight bat and not be manipulated. And yes the only vague solution my fuddled brain could manage was that Pitch was the Sweetheart but did not really compute. Rather feels like being a pawn in a chess game rather than an independent player. A it sorry as I worked harder on this game than I have for years probably but in the end it turns out we were more or less shooting fish in a barrel which is rather disappointing. I think that is what freaked me out - I was working with what was in "clear" not what was in code.... By the end the only person I remotedly trusted was Boromir, and I never thought I'd say that again, and he wasn't around.

Hey ho ... It really didn't turn out as I expected and I feel for what a difficult time Foley must have had. MAybe moddesses should reserve the right to create and emergency Werebear,,,,

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Hey ho ... It really didn't turn out as I expected and I feel for what a difficult time Foley must have had. MAybe moddesses should reserve the right to create and emergency Werebear,,,,

That would have been pretty sweet.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, I knew you were the Sweetheart, Finduilas.

Did I do anything particularly obvious? I mean, I know I stood up for Pitch about the whole modfire thing, but that was because he really hadn't done anything against the rules. I'm not necessarily surprised that you knew who I was, but I would be interesting in knowing how.

[Inziladun]

I agree with phantom that the outcome of the game might have been quite different if Bom hadn't been Fenris'd.

Like I said, I really didn't see Pitch as the probable KD until very late in the game. I saw his "hints" Day 1, but then everyone had been talking about the KD.

For me, Bom led me to G55, and Nerwen's choice of McCaber over G55 led me to Nerwen. It was that simple, and I was utterly amazed that I'd chosen correctly each time. As a rule, I'm pretty hopeless as an ordo.

The KD setup reminds me of Eönwë's long ago Night Guard game, in which I was the "saboteur" wolf, secretly on the side of the village. If I remember correctly, the village didn't even know one of the wolves was on their side, which made my job that much more difficult. Maybe having the KD's sympathies unknown to the innocents would have helped balance things here.

At any rate, Pitch was able to bring about a village victory here, where I failed miserably in a similar situation.

[Eruhen]

I'm gonna second what Zil just said. I truly had no idea that Pitch was the KD until literally the end of D3. I picked Bom on D1 because he had set off my Wolf-dar (TM), like he has a tendency to do most times, I picked G55 for her defence of Bom, and Nerwen's reluctance to throw G55 under the bus made me pick her.

Also, Mith, I have to say that a Werebear would have been a great addition and potential leveling factor to this game.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mith

MAybe moddesses should reserve the right to create and emergency Werebear,,,,

Ha ha! I can see it now- in the future all Mods will put that at the end of the their list of rules.... "And as always, I, the moderator, reserve the right to create an emergency Werebear".

Originally Posted by Pitch

As to the question of hints and revealing, I find picking up hints rather difficult myself, so I had a hard time estimating how obvious or cryptic I was being in the eyes of the ordos.

Yes, yes, it's a hard thing to gauge, and I hope you didn't take my shushing of you too personally (same to you Boro & Finduilas) when I felt things were going too far on Day 2. Not only was modfire a concern, but the balance was so much at stake that I liked the idea of potentially being the only Ordo sold on Pitch's role, and supporting lynchings by means of making accusations.

But once the Gal55-wagon happened and people said what they did on Day 2, I knew it was over- it was just a matter of time. So after that I saw no reason to agonizingly drag things out, which I figured would feel like torture to a side with no legitimate hope at that stage, so I became more aggressive Day 3 about ending it.

Anyway, at the very least it was a delight to vote for the same person three days in a row.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry I am not very artistic... or used to paint...

[Folwren]

Haha. You'd all probably be surprised at how close I came to seriously considering putting in a werebear-ish sort of character.

So....now that people have expressed what they liked and disliked about this game - if different rules were made to make the setup more even, would this general game set-up be worth while playing again? (Not that I'm planning to in the near future or even ever, necessarily, I just would like to know that maybe this idea could work...I don't like something of mine beinga complete failure. )

-- Folwren