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#1 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom
Posts: 273
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However, you're wrong about the demise of such things in the English language. I live just a little to the north of Birmingham, where Tolkien grew up, and my local dialect is similar to the language of that area. In conversation between family and friends we still use familiar pronouns, though when I speak, "thee" sounds more like "thay" and "thine" comes out as "tharn". The old forms are alive and well in the UK's regional dialects. . |
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#2 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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And I don't remember my German well enough at the moment: is it Sie (polite) along with Du familiar? |
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#3 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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#4 | |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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Inzil, you've already pointed to the two other examples of the word usage that I would like to expand on! Good job on remembering them. Since the familiar form is used with a different purpose there, perhaps we should carry on with the discussion about Éowyn before talking about them.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#5 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,513
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I'm no expert on this, but could there be a difference between "thee" and "thou"? Denethor, Eowyn, and Aragorn use "thee", and MOS says "thou". Perhaps "thou" has a different shade to it.
And I think Denethor is addressing Gandalf on familiar terms to do quite the opposite - show Galdalf that he doesn't have authority over the Stewart and can't boss him around. Or, that thy re more equal than (Denethor thinks) Gandalf thinks.
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#6 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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The difference between "thee" and "thou" is a matter of declension: "thou" is nominative, "thee" is objective, "thy" and "thine" are genitive, and "thine" is possessive. (The Wikipedia entry on "thou" has a good diagram explaining this, along with further information on grammar and etymology.)
Your thoughts on Denethor and Gandalf are going in the right direction - I'll be back with some quotes to explain later today, or tomorrow.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#7 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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Practically useless post
Esty, I believe we've had this discussion before (edit: well, maybe not at length, but we had touched on the subject) in the CbC for "The Passing of the Grey Company" (clickety click!). My, that was quite the exchange between Aragorn and Éowyn, wasn't it?
Last edited by Lhunardawen; 08-18-2011 at 11:58 AM. |
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#8 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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You have a great memory, Lhuna! I enjoyed going back to the CbC discussion to which you linked! And I enjoyed seeing how you pointed out Aragorn's admirable qualities because of the way he handled the situation. (I think "swoon-worthy" was the technical term you used?!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' Last edited by Estelyn Telcontar; 08-18-2011 at 12:24 PM. |
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