Why did Legolas set sail for the Grey Havens only after Aragorn's death?

[Nolwë_Namiel]

Originally Posted by SlverGlass

Even as one of the Eldar, Legolas....

Sorry, Legolas was not one of the Eldar. The term Eldar is applied only to those elves who accepted the summons of the Valar and entered Aman, including Elwë Singollo.

Since his father and grandfather are both stated in the HOME to be Sindarin, he is at least half-Sindarin. As to the other half, the HOME also states that only a handful of Sindar went with Oropher and Thranduil and they soon merged with the Silvan elves. This would account for the possibility that Legolas' hair was indeed dark for all elves, except the Vanyar and Teleri, were dark-haired.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nolwë_Namiel

Sorry, Legolas was not one of the Eldar. The term Eldar is applied only to those elves who accepted the summons of the Valar and entered Aman, including Elwë Singollo.

But the term could also be applied to all Elves that went on the Great Journey, ncluding the Sindar.

Originally Posted by The Sil, Index

According to Elvish legend the name Eldar 'People of the Stars' was given to all Elves by the Vala Orome. It came however to be used to refer only to the Elves of the Three Kindreds (Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri) who set out on the great westward march from Cuivienen (whether or not they remained in Middle Earth), and to exclude the Avari.

Silvan Elves are said to be those Teleri that dropped out of the Great Journey to the East of the Blue Mountains (or was it Misty Mountains?). I guess some Avari could have come to the settlements later on.

So either way, Legolas is at least part Eldar.

[Galin]

According to The Lord of the Rings (author-published of course) the Eldar are the Elves of Aman plus the Sindar only (and returning Noldor of course). The East-elves of Mirkwood and Lorien were not considered Eldar, nor their languages Eldarin (Appendix F).

However Legolas had Sindarin blood in any case. I know The Silmarillion says (a bit) differently, but I'm not sure Tolkien was paying full attention to what he had already published when he wrote that which Christopher Tolkien chose to put into the 1977 Silmarillion.

[LadyBrooke]

But even using the LotR's definition of Eldar, and not the Silm version, which would need to be clarified as to which version is used as some of use one and others the other, Legolas also proclaims himself a Silvan elf, not an Eldar. When entering Hollin, he says "the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk." No matter which book is used, somewhere there is evidence that Legolas was not one of the Eldar. In Letters, Tolkien states that he is one of the Woodelves. I fail to see the evidence that Legolas is an Eldar, to contradict the clearly stated, by Legolas himself, idea the Legolas is one of the Silvan elves.

And part Eldar does not count as Eldar. For example, Finrod is part Vanyar and Teleri, so can we proclaim him to be Vanyar or Teleri in spite of it being stated he is one of the Noldor?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

But even using the LotR's definition of Eldar, and not the Silm version, which would need to be clarified as to which version is used as some of use one and others the other, Legolas also proclaims himself a Silvan elf, not an Eldar. When entering Hollin, he says "the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk."

I don't think that would necessarily be a point against Legolas being Sindarin.
Since silvan is not capitalised there, I could see that as Legolas speaking not as a Silvan Elf, but rather a silvan (wood-dwelling) elf to whom the culture of the Noldor was alien.

[Galin]

Culturally I would say Legolas is one of the Tawarwaith or Wood-elves, but according to one description, the remigrant Sindar might have brought at least some measure of West-elven culture with them too. A late text (Unfinished Tales) generally notes that these Silvan Teleri had become a small and scattered people, hardly to be distinguished from Avari, but that under Sindarin leadership they 'became again ordered folk and increased in wisdom,' and some learned writing from the Sindar.

This at least seems (to me anyway) to imply that they brought some Beleriandic culture into play, noting the history of Galadriel and Celeborn relates that the Silvan Elves of Lorien became subject to 'Sindarizing' under the impact of Beleriandic culture. Legolas, as the son of a Sinda, was the son of an Elda... by blood he might be fully Sindarin, or not. But what does blood mean regarding this question?


However another late text in Unfinished Tales notes Oropher and folk: 'wished indeed to become Silvan folk and to return, as they said, to the simple life natural to the Elves before the invitation of the Valar had disturbed it.'

As I said above, however Legolas had Sindarin blood (at least in part) in any case, but admittedly I'm not really sure what that alone might mean as far as being accounted an Elda or not -- in The Lord of the Rings the Eldar are the West-elves while the Silvans of Lorien and Mirkwood are the East-elves -- and in my opinion Legolas did not himself live in Beleriand at least, about as West as one could go without sailing to Aman.


It's possible (though I've no text to support it) that the 'definition' of Eldar Tolkien later wrote about (taken up into The Silmarillion by CJRT) was yet another internal distinction: meaning Eldar first referred to all Elves (Peoples of the Stars), then to the West-elves, then later to the Marchers (Eldor), whether or not they had reached Beleriand.

I'm not sure Tolkien saw the latter idea as an internal addition to the use or application of Eldar (rather than forgetting what he had actually published already), but the term seems to have changed a bit internally in any case.

Erm, what was the question again!

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galin

Erm, what was the question again!

I think there is intense debate about the definitions of the words 'eldar' and 'sindar'. I fear I may have to listen very carefully as the hair and eye color of assorted characters might shift unexpectedly.