Magic in Middle-earth

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Many of the examples of magic are centered on Gandalf. He wields not only a ring, but also a staff. I interpret both Gandalf's ring and staff as very general purpose tools that focus, shape, amplify (or choose another word) the 'inner power/will/abilities' of their wielder. As such, a staff or ring might be considered different from the gate or palantír. Anyone speaking the correct word might open the gate. Even a hobbit could trigger operation of a palantír.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by blantyr

How many examples do we have of magic without an amplifying artifact?

Elves communicating telepathically. Making prophecies.

I'm not sure if doing magic through music could fit under this - music is kind of a magnifying artifact.

Many ainur have some magical "special powers" in addition to their power (for example, Vana's gaze makes flower bloom).


A similar question would be about objects that are magical without anyone having to trigger the magic. Silmarilli? They shine all the time. Gondolin swords that glow in the presence of enemies? You need the enemies, true, but the sword doesn't have to be held or anything like that.

Originally Posted by blantyr

Aragorn can heal with athelas. Is the power in Aragorn, in the athelas, or both? Does Aragorn amplify the athelas or does athelas amplify Aragorn?

Athelas doesn't work that way in any other preson's hands. Likewise, Aragorn was only able to heal Faramir with the help of Athelas.

Originally Posted by blantyr

Many of the items mentioned above such as the gate, staffs, rings, phial and palantír were presumably created by someone or other. All such making takes place off stage. The impression I have is that some of the "inner power/will/abilities" of the creator of an item is pushed into the item. Someone might want to say a bit more about that.

What about Amon Hen and Amon Lhaw? Nimrodel (the river)?

However, I absolutely agree with what you said. Melian says about Anglachel, "The heart of the smith still dwells in it" - something that's applicable to many other items.

Originally Posted by blantyr

We might ask if speaking the name of a valar amplifies an oath, or might become something akin to prayer.

I think that names of people and things carry the spirit of those people. When you say a Vala's name, it's as if you bring their presence. Examples:

-Frodo's shout "Elbereth Gilthoniel" scares the Nazgul on Weathertop from immediate actions

-Gondorians avoid naming Sauron and Mordor

-The name "Bombadil" brings courage to Frodo in the Barrow

Originally Posted by blantyr

Eowyn in slaying a fell beast also seemingly changed the weather.

I'd say that the weather changes because of the overall victory, not only Eowyn's over the Wi-Ki. The weather changes according to the events, but the events don't change the weather.

Originally Posted by blantyr

What is it that brought snow to Caradhras, or covered the land with darkness during the War of the Ring?

I can only speculate about the first, but we know the second - Sauron woke up his volcano.

Originally Posted by blantyr

There is a good deal magic in the books. We might not want to focus too narrowly.

I second that.



I'm beginning to doubt my words that ME is filled with magic. The more I think about it, the less magical everything appears. From the perspective of a hobbit, Elves could be magical simply for having long hair. From the perspective of Elves the Valar are magical because of many things, and the ability to create something from nothing... well, the Imperishable Flame. And to the Valar, hobbits might seem magical, because they are able to enjoy the life that they have, which is very simple compared to the other nations/races (or, as Gandalf said, you can learn everything about them in a month, and they'll surprise you in a hundred years). But from every race's perspective, their abilities are not unusual. Elves/Valar/Numenorians/etc could consider the something radiating from them just traces of (high) birth, willpower, inner strength, nobility, toughness, wisdom, possibly some mighty ancestor...

Which means that there really is no magic. And when there is none, but it is felt, it's magical. So the magic is in the inexistence of magic?

headdesk.