Sauron's Hroa and the Missing Finger

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

My only real answer to that (and I admit it's weak) is that it could have been grabbed by those fleeing, say a residual Wainrider (if any of them had survived the dead Marshes) and his chariot (sauron is supposed to be only slightly above normal human stature so a single chariot would proably have been enough to convey it.

But what would have been the motive? The rank-and-file troop wouldn't have known a great deal about Sauron, and thus would likely have had no inkling he could ever return. Why take the trouble to retrieve the body of their fallen leader when it was all they could do to save themselves?

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

But what would have been the motive? The rank-and-file troop wouldn't have known a great deal about Sauron, and thus would likely have had no inkling he could ever return. Why take the trouble to retrieve the body of their fallen leader when it was all they could do to save themselves?

As I thought I said
1. To bury him, perhaps so his tomb could be a rallying point for further battles (granted this implies the existance in the ranks of men or orcs who hold a certain veneration for thier leader, above and beyond the fear
2. Given that we know that orcs (and possibly some of the other members of the forces) are cannibalistic, maybe they wanted to do an act of sympathetic cannibalism. It's not all that uncommon in our worlds history, your enemy was strong you eat him, his strength becomes yours. And if any knew Sauron enough to know he was more or less a god (or god like being) to a cannibalistic tribe that might have been a further inducement.

[Galin]

On a (slightly) more serious note I'm with Morthoron on this as well.

If it needed to be explained internally then maybe (!) something like: the loss of the One somehow scarred the fea, so much so that the fea rebuilding its hroa could not overcome this 'spiritual scar' and thus Sauron was forced to reflect this in the body.

Or something like that but better

But again I think it was just too 'poetic' or 'right' (for JRRT) on an external level -- just like I think Tolkien knew that Sauron must take the Ring to Numenor (he couldn't leave it behind), and so Sauron's fea 'must' have somehow carried the physical One back to Middle-earth, his spirit being so tied to the One.

Or something.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

1. To bury him, perhaps so his tomb could be a rallying point for further battles (granted this implies the existance in the ranks of men or orcs who hold a certain veneration for thier leader, above and beyond the fear

Given the apparent attitudes of the Orcs we see close up in the books regarding Sauron, I find it hard to believe they honestly cared enough about Sauron to have wanted to honourably dispose of his body. Moreover, it seems the majority of Men who served him were from the East and South, and I doubt their service was as much out of veneration for Sauron as it was for hate of the West and a desire for loot and pillage. The fall of Sauron would have made them think they'd backed the wrong side and their primary objective would have been to merely get home alive.

Originally Posted by Alfirin

2. Given that we know that orcs (and possibly some of the other members of the forces) are cannibalistic, maybe they wanted to do an act of sympathetic cannibalism. It's not all that uncommon in our worlds history, your enemy was strong you eat him, his strength becomes yours. And if any knew Sauron enough to know he was more or less a god (or god like being) to a cannibalistic tribe that might have been a further inducement.

Well, maybe. But if Orcs took Sauron's empty body to do so, it seems it would have been long digested by the time he was ready to rebody.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, maybe. But if Orcs took Sauron's empty body to do so, it seems it would have been long digested by the time he was ready to rebody.

Unless the WK caught up with them and stopped them (they were presumably almost as afraid of him as sauron hinself and if he said "Do not eat this, carry it here, they would have likey obeyed him)

[Nerwen]

But Alfirin, do you have evidence for any of this? I mean, a footnote or a letter or anything? Because honestly, all I'm seeing here is a long, long chain of "and ifs".

[Azrakhor Akallabeth]

I think it was prophetic based on a numerology scheme surrounding the nine major attributes of the Ring~

1. Sauron had nine fingers

2. Frodo had nine fingers

3. Bilbo gained 9 extra inches on his beltline

3. Gollum had nine teeth

4. Isildur had nine lives (but used them all by the time he crossed the Anduin)

5. Samwise Gamgee was elected to public office nine times

6. Tom Bombadil had nine sets of yellow boots

7. The Nazgul had nine ex-wives

8. Smeagol had nine personalities (two dominant so he gets a twice mention)

9. And last, Gimli, who touched it with his axe, had nine inch feet

I'm just sayin

[Galadriel55]

10. For 9 or ninety-nine days we could think of all kinds of ridiculous 9-related things and still not finish.

PS: Gollum had an upsidedown 9 teeth.