Why are Tolkien fans usually left-wing?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Might

So my question is - why do you think that Tolkien appeals rather to people on the left?

How does one define "left", anyway? What's "left" in one country might be considered rather conservative in another.

Originally Posted by The Might

Is it the environmental aspect of M-e or the perfectly functioning system of the Shire that contribute? Is my assumption even true?

Personally, I see the Shire as being rather a Libertarian paradise; no police or court system, with everyone just doing as they please under no central authority, and all.

[Mnemosyne]

Orly?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, I really think Alatar has a point here. Despite certain impressions, I think it is really dependant largely upon the collective you appeared in. I think you might've fallen into the trap of "everyone here is a Tolkien fan" - when it's only a certain specific demographic group.

Similarly, on the internet, that is also already a certain selection of people (e.g. you don't have the chance to count into the "statistics" the people who don't use internet in the first place), and once again, depending on which websites you visit, that limits it once again, etc... it is possible that you might have visited a forum which is more "left-wing" by itself, but perhaps had you visited a different one... you see the point.

And last of all, yes, the definition of "left-wing".

So however much the thread idea is interesting, if we wanted to be scientifically precise (I hate statistics, personally, but for once), what you can say is not "Tolkien fans seem to be usually left-wing, both in RL and on the internet", but all you can say is "there are many people whose opinions can be considered left-wing by local standards in the local part of Tolkien society and on some selected websites". It only proves that there are some Tolkien fans who are left-wing, or that there are some communities where there are more of them.

Funnily enough, I just realised that of the RL fans I know, majority of them are actually right-wing - at least by local standards, or, say, given by whom they support in elections: but that's exactly already containing many predetermined facts, because here, in a post-communist country, "left wing" is, among certain groups of people (the sort of "young educated middle-class", and in general more in people who e.g. live in big cities), implying something negative; and especially in the last elections, if you voted for left-wing parties, you were suspected of trying to "bring the trouble of Greece" to our country. And so if e.g. around that time you'd have met some people on the internet, you'd get the impression that they are "right-wing" by how they'd be dissing the left, even if some of them in fact might not be as much.

[Folwren]

I know a lot of right-winger Tolkien fans (myself included). It probably is the circle one runs in, as the others say above. I have found that several members of the Downs are left-wing...but the majority of my Tolkien fan acquaintances are right-wings.

-- Foley

[Bêthberry]

I'll weigh in too and sorry, Might, to disavow your notion. I know many Downers who are right-wing but also many who are left-wing. And a few in the middle too. (Gasp! yes, I come from a country where there is a middle.)

I think one reason the BarrowDowns attracts people from across the political spectrum is that the Barrow Wight kept the focus of the forum on Tolkien and Tolkien-related matters (see, for instance, how Werewolf looks here), so people weren't posting on tangential things like local politics.

Tolkien wasn't an ideologue, so there's something in his work for every political point of view.

[alatar]

We don't know if Tolkien even *believed* in wings...cough...Balrogs...cough...

[Morthoron]

Seeing that Tolkien was named "Catholic Author of the Century", and is revered in Catholic circles, I fail to see the leftist interests. Catholics as a group in the U.S. are a fairly conservative lot.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by alatar

We don't know if Tolkien even *believed* in wings...cough...Balrogs...cough...

The question is finally solved! The Balrog had one fake right-wing and one fake left-wing... both of them useless...

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Tolkien and his stories are too complex to be assigned to or claimed by any one group.

Very true, and that's what makes them so beautiful!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Orly?

... is a town and airport in France, as far as I know. No idea about it's political leanings.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

How does one define "left", anyway? What's "left" in one country might be considered rather conservative in another.

Yep, let alone different stages of history. Most conservative parties today would be considered pretty far left by the standards of the French Revolution (which is where "left" and "right" as political labels come from)... and conversely, the kind of social politics we've seen from our German Social Democrats in the last ten years sometimes looks like they're trying to regress beyond Bismarck.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Personally, I see the Shire as being rather a Libertarian paradise; no police or court system, with everyone just doing as they please under no central authority, and all.

Agreed - but is that right-libertarian or left-libertarian?

OK, to get back on topic and fill the words with some meaning: I suppose from the German context you refer to in your post, Miggy, that you're using "left-wing supporters" to mean people who would describe themselves roughly as e.g. supporting individual liberty and privacy versus state surveillance, minority rights and tolerance versus racism, solidarity and social justice versus neo-liberal capitalism, to name the main issues. I think you can find support for the first two in Tolkien (think of the threats of denunciation among the Mordor Orcs, the Drúedain and the friendship between Legolas and Gimli), but it's debatable whether those are exclusively or even predominantly leftist positions. The last one, which is more of a traditionally leftist concern, doesn't seem to be much of an issue in Tolkien as far as I can see - which may have to do with the fact that he's describing a pre-industrial society.

Other matters are even less clear-cut. Environmentalism, which I think was quite important to Tolkien, cuts across the spectrum - at heart, it's a conservative concern (or should be), its association with the Left is rather accidental.
Or take localism versus centralism. Looking at Aragorn's Reunited Kingdom with its autonomous regions of The Shire and Drúadan Forest compared to Sauron's regime in Mordor, it's rather obvious where the Prof's sympathies lay - but does that make him "right" or "left"?

Finally (this is where Legate's post-communist Tolkien fans come in), what about class struggle? Conspicuously absent. Dictatorship of the proletariat? Likewise (unless you're going to kid yourself and paint the Orcs as revolutionary masses, as some leftist critics have had the unbelievable stupidity to do). Nationalizing the means of production? I suppose it could be argued that Saruman tried that in the Shire (or not), but again, Middle-earth was pre-industrial, so Marxist theory doesn't really apply here.

To get back to your question, Miggy, my own experience with other Tolkien fans is very similar to yours - but this may say more about myself and my choice of friends than about Tolkien fandom, or even German Tolkien fandom, in general; and I've met some exceptions (I'm married to one - at least she likes the books, although she'd vividly protest against being called a 'fan').

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Tolkien wasn't an ideologue, so there's something in his work for every political point of view.

Some more, some less, but basically yes - it's the same thing that makes him appeal to people from all kinds of cultural and religious backgrounds. I think there are political lessons to be learned from Tolkien (the man and his writings), if you're inclined to look for them, but the first one is that things are rarely so simple as ideologues both left and right would like us to believe.