Book of lost tales (part 1) help - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galin · 03-18-2011, 02:58 PM

Concerning Earendel: looking back at the early poetry (and related material): in a short prose preface to The Shores of Faery and in the outline associated with The Bidding of the Minstrel, Christopher Tolkien notes that: '... Earendil was conceived to be an old man when he journeyed into the Firmament' (Tale of Earendil, BLT II)

Also, I note an earlier reading with respect to a passage in The Cottage of Lost Play (note 5 to CLP): 'shall it be of Earendel the wanderer, who alone of the sons of Men has had great traffic with the Valar and Elves, who alone of their kindred has seen beyond Taniquetil, even he who sails for ever in the firmament.'

Here Earendel being of Mannish heritage seems emphasized, but that said...

'... how so Earendel was the son of Tuor and Idril and 'tis said the only being that is half of the kindred of the Eldalie and half of Men. He was the greatest and first of all mariners among men and saw regions that men have not yet found nor gazed upon for all the multitude of their boats. He rideth now with Voronwe upon the winds of the firmament nor comes ever further back than Kor, else would he die like other men, so much of the mortal is in him.' JRRT, Name List To The Fall Of Gondolin

Hmmm. And do we know how Tolkien viewed the 'half-elven' at this time? I would need to investigate that further in any event, but in the Quenta Silmarillion of the mid to late 1930s at least, it's noted that all those who had a measure of mortal blood were mortal, unless other doom be granted them -- although this is quite a bit later than the BLT material, however it's interpreted.

And again, if FG was written before CLP...

With respect to what came first, CLP or FG, Hammond and Scull appear to find this matter inconclusive in my opinion, and even cite a note that might suggest Tolkien, at least at one point, considered CLP a 'tale' itself -- among other evidence of course, and again, I get the feeling there is no way to certainly tell which was written first.

Scull and Hammond have posted here (at least once that I recall) so maybe they'll correct me about that, or add some material perhaps, but knowing whether FG was written before CLP -- or basically at the same time -- or after CLP, would be notable here, if it's possible to tell.

I don't have the Drout book myself. Anyway, interesting question

03-18-2011, 02:58 PM	#15
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	Concerning Earendel: looking back at the early poetry (and related material): in a short prose preface to The Shores of Faery and in the outline associated with The Bidding of the Minstrel, Christopher Tolkien notes that: '... Earendil was conceived to be an old man when he journeyed into the Firmament' (Tale of Earendil, BLT II) Also, I note an earlier reading with respect to a passage in The Cottage of Lost Play (note 5 to CLP): 'shall it be of Earendel the wanderer, who alone of the sons of Men has had great traffic with the Valar and Elves, who alone of their kindred has seen beyond Taniquetil, even he who sails for ever in the firmament.' Here Earendel being of Mannish heritage seems emphasized, but that said... '... how so Earendel was the son of Tuor and Idril and 'tis said the only being that is half of the kindred of the Eldalie and half of Men. He was the greatest and first of all mariners among men and saw regions that men have not yet found nor gazed upon for all the multitude of their boats. He rideth now with Voronwe upon the winds of the firmament nor comes ever further back than Kor, else would he die like other men, so much of the mortal is in him.' JRRT, Name List To The Fall Of Gondolin Hmmm. And do we know how Tolkien viewed the 'half-elven' at this time? I would need to investigate that further in any event, but in the Quenta Silmarillion of the mid to late 1930s at least, it's noted that all those who had a measure of mortal blood were mortal, unless other doom be granted them -- although this is quite a bit later than the BLT material, however it's interpreted. And again, if FG was written before CLP... With respect to what came first, CLP or FG, Hammond and Scull appear to find this matter inconclusive in my opinion, and even cite a note that might suggest Tolkien, at least at one point, considered CLP a 'tale' itself -- among other evidence of course, and again, I get the feeling there is no way to certainly tell which was written first. Scull and Hammond have posted here (at least once that I recall) so maybe they'll correct me about that, or add some material perhaps, but knowing whether FG was written before CLP -- or basically at the same time -- or after CLP, would be notable here, if it's possible to tell. I don't have the Drout book myself. Anyway, interesting question Last edited by Galin; 03-18-2011 at 06:08 PM.