What do you wish Tolkien....

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Findegil

About the problem of 'ros': I think that for Tolkien a barrowed stem 'ros' meaning foam, spindrift would not have worked, because it would have created the same unwanted situation of 2 homophone stems with completly unconected meanings. Tolkien had not a problem with the history behind the 2 stems but with the fact of their existence. But in the end he was forced to accept them, because both meanings were already published.

I disagree a bit here. Tolkien wrote: 'It is difficult to accept these two homophonic elements -- of unconnected, indeed unconnectable meanings -- as used in Sindarin, or Sindarized names.' The Problem of Ros

And more importantly perhaps, in Tolkien's solution both -ros 'red brown' and Beorian roth > -ros 'foam' still existed in the ultimate same form and meaning in Maedros and Elros, but now both had not arisen within an Eldarin context. Elros would end with a mannish word for example, Maedros with an Elvish word; and now it would not be difficult to accept the homophones of unconnected meaning in these names.

My suggestion is to stick with that, but add, as noted with atan Sindarin adan (Dúnadan), that the Beorian word ros 'foam' became adopted into Grey-elven, and thus Cair Andros is explained as well. Yes the homophones still end up in Sindarin or Sindarized names -- as they remained in Maedros and Elros within Tolkien's own solution for example -- but why would it be difficult to accept that the meanings are unconnected?


The key is to adequately explain homophones of unconnected meaning in these names, and if Tolkien considers the problem solved by making one Beorian, the same solution remains if Beorian ros also becomes a borrowed word in Sindarin.


Also was -ros meaning 'red brown' published by JRRT? not exactly -ros, but the name Rhosgobel appears I think, though I'm not sure Tolkien himself ever noted its meaning in print, for his readership at large I mean.

Just to confirm: the borrowed Mannish word was atan from a note in Of Dwarves And Men, becoming adan in a Sindarin context of course.