How did a Balrog get beneath Moria and when?

[Galin]

"The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth"

So besides under Moria we can find a couple more elsewhere! Any guesses? Ash Mountains? How about deep into Aglarond or under Mindolluin!

Still it might be noted that this was written when Tolkien imagined (seemingly) thousands of Balrogath at Morgoth's command in the First Age; and there is at least one later indication that Tolkien was considering a quite drastic reduction in numbers (at most seven)!

Tolkien never really got around to a true rewrite of the end of Quenta Silmarillion
-- outside of some cursory corrections, concerning which Christopher Tolkien warns do not necessarily illustrate that this section of QS thus was fully 'updated' and revised by his father.

Would JRRT have revised 'few' if he went ahead with this reduction? I don't know, but I'm just saying this line really hails from the late 1930s, well before Tolkien at least mused about reducing Balrog numbers in Middle-earth.

[Ksenia]

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[Cirdan]

Originally Posted by Galin

Still it might be noted that this was written when Tolkien imagined (seemingly) thousands of Balrogath at Morgoth's command in the First Age; and there is at least one later indication that Tolkien was considering a quite drastic reduction in numbers (at most seven)!

Tolkien never really got around to a true rewrite of the end of Quenta Silmarillion
-- outside of some cursory corrections, concerning which Christopher Tolkien warns do not necessarily illustrate that this section of QS thus was fully 'updated' and revised by his father.

Would JRRT have revised 'few' if he went ahead with this reduction? I don't know, but I'm just saying this line really hails from the late 1930s, well before Tolkien at least mused about reducing Balrog numbers in Middle-earth.

The quote from Letters that I had just offered above would seem to confirm this idea -well, that there was (perhaps) only one left. Do you have something you can quote for us here from the War of the Jewels History volume, or is this idea that there were supposed to be only a few Balrogs from another source?

[Galin]

The note hails from The Annals of Aman, but appears on the typescript specifically, so is probably not earlier than 1958-ish. The revision by Tolkien refers to the word host, but in the margin appears the drastic reduction and specific numbering...

('a host of Balrogs, the last of his servants that remained') 'his Balrogs, the last of his servants that remained faithful to him'. In the margin my father wrote: 'There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed.'

Morgoth's Ring, The Annals of Aman, §50

As I say, for the 1977 Silmarillion Christopher Tolkien retained the wording with respect to the War of Wrath, but he seems to have edited out still existing references to large numbers of Balrogs, nicely leaving the constructed version vague (enough) on the question.



Some published Silmarillion alterations to JRRT's Quenta Silmarillion are noted below, after the texts they are seemingly based on (unless these were altered by JRRT himself, but this is not noted in The History of Middle-Earth series at least, that I remember anyway).

__________

'Wherefore each embassy came with greater force than was agreed, but Morgoth sent the greater, and they were Balrogs. Maidros was ambushed...' (Of The Siege of Angband, Quenta Silmarillion) [] '... but Morgoth sent the more, and there were Balrogs.' Of The Return of the Noldor (The Silmarillion)

'Sauron came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower, with a host of Balrogs.' (Of the Ruin of Beleriand And the Fall of Fingolfin, Quenta Silmarillion) [] '... named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion.' Of The Ruin Of Beleriand (The Silmarillion)

'There came wolves and serpents, and there came Balrogs one thousand,...' (Of the Fourth Battle: Nírnaith Arnediad, Quenta Silmarillion) [] 'There came wolves and wolfriders, and there came Balrogs, and dragons...' Of The Fifth Battle (The Silmarillion)

[Cirdan]

Originally Posted by Galin

'There came wolves and serpents, and there came Balrogs one thousand,...' (Of the Fourth Battle: Nírnaith Arnediad, Quenta Silmarillion) [] 'There came wolves and wolfriders, and there came Balrogs, and dragons...' Of The Fifth Battle (The Silmarillion)

1000!?! I imagined 50 at most during the Wars of Beleriand with perhaps many more (a hundred?) being destroyed by the Valar during remotely-earlier conflicts. 1000 or more Balrogs is a ridiculous amount of raw firepower -small wonder that Tolkien considered scaling it back! Perhaps in his earlier conception they were less powerful being slightly above that of trolls?

Thanks, Galin!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Cirdan

1000!?! I imagined 50 at most during the Wars of Beleriand with perhaps many more (a hundred?) being destroyed by the Valar during remotely-earlier conflicts. 1000 or more Balrogs is a ridiculous amount of raw firepower -small wonder that Tolkien considered scaling it back! Perhaps in his earlier conception they were less powerful being slightly above that of trolls?

I agree. Well, maybe not exactly trolls, but definitely not Maiar. If Morgoth corrupted that many, and about the same number remained loyal to Eru/Valar, and some didn't go to Ea at all - HOW MANY DID ERU CREATE?! But then during the War of Wrath Morgoth's forces and the 'good army' filled all of Anfauglith! How many thousands do you suppose there are? But that could be orcs, though...

[Galin]

Yes Tolkien did change his mind about Balrogs and Morgoth's ability to 'create'. Externally Balrogs did come to be imagined as Umaiar, but in the early 1950s at least Tolkien might have been holding on to 'many' Balrogs despite being Maiar?

Apparently Morgoth could multiply the Umaiar according to the Annals of Aman abandoned typescript (or AAm*) section 30: 'And in Utumno he multiplied the race of the evil spirits that followed him, the Umaiar, of whom the chief were those demons whom the Elves afterwards named the Balrogath.'

CJRT notes that there seems no way to determine with certainty when AAm* was made, but he thinks or feels that it belongs to the first phase (early 1950s).

I'm not suggesting this was the ultimate conception, merely that it seems to represent an idea that followed the writing of The Lord of the Rings (yet preceded the note to Annals of Aman, mentioned in my earlier post, if CJRT's thoughts are correct).