Fan Project: Lalaith's Misdeeds

[Nerwen]

I'm sure they'll make a long, long, list.

[Urwen]

*Tuor comes dressed like warrior* Why did you isnult my cousin? Now you could join yours! *pushes Nerwen off Caragdur into the lava* Let Maeglin enjoy his cousin's company! *walks away, slowly*

[Galadriel55]

WHAT IS THIS?!

And what is this?

I'll let you two argue back and forth about it. I exhausted all my Lalaith arguments on the Did Maedhros kill Laughter thread.

[Nerwen]

Even as a mere child, Lalaith was trouble. We've heard all about the unfortunate fate of the butterfly, of course. But there's more–

Did you know Lalaith was an incorrigible biter? It was the vicious chomp she gave Sador, and the resulting blood-poisoning, that caused him to lose his foot. Her parents had to pay Labadal handsomely to keep his mouth shut, I can tell you. (The "axe" story was just a cover-up.)

[Urwen]

No, you're wrong about that. Reliable sources tell me that it wasn't Lalaith who did that. It was, in fact, Carcharoth.

Turin was born in the year when Beren met Luthien. Lalaith was born two years later. Sador was a grown up by then.

Carcharoth is known for biting off noticeable parts of human bodies (just like Beren's hand)

So, there you are. Sador was working in the forest, when Carcharoth came and chomped his foot off.

But what else would you expect from crazy wolf?

[Nerwen]

Your sources are clearly not as reliable as you imagine. After all, why would Sador go around telling people he'd stupidly chopped his own foot off when he hadn't– unless there was a good reason? (*cough* hush money *cough*)

Your confusion, I suspect, arises from the fact that Lalaith (outside her parents' hearing) was widely known as "Little Carcharoth". Thus, the servants of Dor-lómin were wont to mutter, "His axe slipped, huh? Don't believe it. I bet it was 'Little Carcharoth', the brat! If she were my child I'd tan her hide!"

[Loslote]

Now, now, you're both forgetting the most obvious one! She goaded Maedhros into causing her death.

[Urwen]

Lalaith (outside her parents' hearing) was widely known as "Little Carcharoth".

Now, that is incorrect. Why would they call her thusly, when there, right in front of their noses, was Turin.

Plus, if it had happened that way, where would Sador keep his money? In the chair he was making for Hurin? But Hurin was a prisoner of Morgoth, so Morwen begged Sador to chop it for firewood. He was reluctant at first, cos he apparently hid money into legs of chair, but after being convinced by Morwen and Turin alike, he burned it.

So, if Morwen asked him to burn his money along with chair, why did she give it to him in the first place?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Now, now, you're both forgetting the most obvious one! She goaded Maedhros into causing her death.

Oh, I'm getting to that, don't worry.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Now, that is incorrect. Why would they call her thusly, when there, right in front of their noses, was Turin.

Túrin didn't bite people; he was a dear little boy. You must be confusing him with someone else– his sister, no doubt.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Plus, if it had happened that way, where would Sador keep his money? In the chair he was making for Hurin? But Hurin was a prisoner of Morgoth, so Morwen begged Sador to chop it for firewood. He was reluctant at first, cos he apparently hid money into legs of chair, but after being convinced by Morwen and Turin alike, he burned it.

So, if Morwen asked him to burn his money along with chair, why did she give it to him in the first place?

What a silly question! He of course removed it from the chair and concealed it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Lalaith's career in maiming people didn't end with Sador. Ragnir lost his sight when Lalaith threw her bowl of hot soup in his eyes. (Again, there was a cover-up.) I mean, read between the lines, Urwen– why did you think about half the serving-men in their household are blind or crippled?

[Urwen]

Because of their old age, of course.

But if you insist...could you tell me what was Ragnir's cover-up?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Because of their old age, of course.

...premature old age, due to constant terror...

But if you insist...could you tell me what was Ragnir's cover-up?

Another "accident", of course. He supposedly tripped while carrying the bowl of soup, and splashed it in his eyes.

Again, many were sceptical: "It's that spawn of Morgoth again! Someone should wring that little monster's neck!" But none dared speak, knowing their Lord and Lady were besotted with the fiend in childish shape.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Now, now, you're both forgetting the most obvious one! She goaded Maedhros into causing her death.

Indeed! Insolent child, how dare she? I'm surprised she wasn't punished for her- oh, right.

[Nerwen]

Ulfang the Black was in truth a much maligned man. Morgoth's messengers came to him again and again, promising him great riches and the lands of the Edain if he would but serve their lord, but always he dismissed them with scorn.

"Begone!" he would cry. "Back to your dark master, and take your lies with you! My Lord Caranthir may have the temper of a rabid werewolf, and most other Elves may be arrogant sods who would thoroughly deserve their comeuppance– but what quarrel have I with the Edain, my own kin? How could I wish ill on their sweet, adorable, innocent little ones?"

It was on a friendly visit to Dor–Lómin that everything changed. Things went well at first; Morwen received Ulfang with gracious reserve, while Húrin ordered a feast in his honour. Talk, wine and laughter flowed freely.

No one paid any attention to the golden-haired toddler scowling in the corner.

Lalaith was so jealous of the welcome her father and mother were giving this stranger that even her favourite pastime of pulling the wings off flies had palled. Instead, setting her inventive mind to work, she devised a wonderful new game she provisionally titled, "Creep Up On The Nasty Man And Drop A Hot Coal Down The Back Of His Tunic".

It was a roaring success. From Lalaith's point of view, anyway.

Ulfang enlisted in the Thangorodrim Secret Service (Treachery Division) the very next day.

[Urwen]

Little is known that Ulfang harboured in his heart love for Haleth. Since Haleth loved Caranthir, Ulfang was desperate. Morgoth promised him Haleth if he betrayed. Thus, he agreed. Morgoth kept his promise by letting Ulfang die and join her. Thus, Gorlim Unhappy and Grima Wormtongue had worthy company.

Eol also loved Haleth,as did Caranthir. Morgoth controlled them like puppets and made sure they also joined Haleth in death...

TBC ~

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Little is known that Ulfang harboured in his heart love for Haleth. Since Haleth loved Caranthir, Ulfang was desperate. Morgoth promised him Haleth if he betrayed. Thus, he agreed. Morgoth kept his promise by letting Ulfang die and join her. Thus, Gorlim Unhappy and Grima Wormtongue had worthy company.

Eol also loved Haleth,as did Caranthir. Morgoth controlled them like puppets and made sure they also joined Haleth in death...

TBC ~

That's very sweet, Urwen. But I believe it needs to be continued on its own thread.

The subject of this thread is Lalaith: The Root of All Evil.

[Urwen]

I'm merely trying to discern truth from myths

[Loslote]

Lalaith wasn't even her real name. Her real name was Urwen. She was called Lalaith because of her laughter.

Manaical laughter, of course. She would have grown up to be an extremely good torturer if she had lived. Everyone soon learned to cringe and slink away whenever they heard the cackling that foretold the approach of Little Carcharoth.

[Lalaith]

Well. This is nice I must say. I turn my back on the downs for what, a couple of months, and this is what I find on my return.

Ironically, of course, you haven't even scraped the surface.

[Mithalwen]

Frankly my dear, they wouldn't know where to begin... and if they did it would make their hair curl....

[Pitchwife]

Let's not forget she won WW LXIII all on her own as last wolf standing. Unforgivable!

[Galadriel55]

After a bit of a break, I'm back with more Lalaith arguments...

Why do you think Turin had so little friends? It's not because he had a bad temper (who made up that ridiculous rumor?!). It's because of his little monsterous sister. Stories of her "playing" spread far and wide, casting a shadow over Turin's name. Everyone was afraid of Lalaith, and that's where all Turin's troubles came from.

We all know that Hurin wasn't welcomed in Dor-lomin after his return from Angband, but hardly anyone knows the real reason. When he was "lord of Dor-lomin" and all that, people were too afraid to speak ill of his daughter or him. Now that he didn't have all the fancy titles behind him, they could tell him the truth about Little Carcharoth to his face.

People gave Morwen the name Eledhwen for the light that shone in her eyes. What the light really was, though, was the reflection of the sunlight on the tears that never left her eyes. She and Hurin had to give away so much money just to keep the "Little Carcharoth" business quiet that they could hardly make ends meet. Morwen weeped for how much their daughter deprived them of.

[Urwen]

Well, in books it clearly states that Morwen (and Turin) suffered because Lalaith died. Hurin too. He tried to sing a song for his daughter, but failed and cursed Morgoth that Valar (and Turin) would finish him off

Meanwhille, Thingol had shady negotiations with Haleth & Nellas. He made a deal that if they killed him, he would have fun with them in Mandos. You really think dwarves killed him? No, it was Nellas and Haleth with her people, disguised as dwarves. Hurin, of course, participated, as dwarf named Ibanzil (which means 'leader').

Turgon disliked dwarves, and Maeglin disliked mortal men. Yet, they harboured Tuor, along with his little 'sister'. But his 'sister' was, in fact, his cousin. He of course, renamed Lalaith, for purpose of saving Idril. He renamed her after Idril's mother.

Hurin, after killing Thingol, and after Melian left, Hurin threw himself in the sea.

As for Lalaith, she personally threw Maeglin off the cliff. People confused her with Tuor because they're cousins. Real Tuor, along with Idril and many others, already escaped. After washing her hands, Lalaith went after them and joined them at havens of Sirion.

And everybody (except Hurin and Maeglin) lived happily.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Why do you think Turin had so little friends? It's not because he had a bad temper (who made up that ridiculous rumor?!). It's because of his little monsterous sister. Stories of her "playing" spread far and wide, casting a shadow over Turin's name. Everyone was afraid of Lalaith, and that's where all Turin's troubles came from.

Indeed. Where else did Saeros get his notions about the wild women of Hithlum? Túrin reacted so violently to his taunts because they hit home.

But that pales in comparison to the effect the tales of "Little Carcharoth" had on the once-proud realm of Nargothrond:

Originally Posted by The Silmarillion

So great a fear did Lalaith set in their hearts that never after until the time of Túrin would any Elf of that realm go into open battle; but with stealth and ambush, with wizardry and venomed dart, they pursued all strangers, forgetting the bonds of kinship. Thus they fell from the valour and freedom of the Elves of old, and their land was darkened.

(Note: certain versions of the text ascribe this sorry state of affairs to Curufin rather than Lalaith; these are all either corrupt, or forgeries put about by fanatical Lalaithists.)

Originally Posted by Urwen

Stuff about Lalaith.

Sorry, Urwen, still the wrong thread.

[Urwen]

No, it isn't. You intentionally skipped this quote:

As for Lalaith, she personally threw Maeglin off the cliff. People confused her with Tuor because they're cousins

[Nerwen]

Clearly another of those corrupt versions I was talking about.

[Urwen]

So great a fear did Lalaith set in their hearts that never after until the time of Túrin would any Elf of that realm go into open battle; but with stealth and ambush, with wizardry and venomed dart, they pursued all strangers, forgetting the bonds of kinship. Thus they fell from the valour and kinship of the Elves of old, and their land was darkened.

Nonsense. Lalaith wasn't even born at the time. All misfortune of Nargothrond was caused by very rare creature and the one who slew it. You see, a unicorn lived in forest near Nargothrond. One day, Celegorm went out hunting and slew it. Thus, misfortune came upon Nargothrond and Celegorm was banished cos of that. After that, Celegorm had only one goal in mind: to find Aredhel and escape back to west with her. To his woe, when he arrived in Gondolin, Aredhel was dead. Driven by longing and weariness, he forsook jis oath and went crawling to Melkor, begging him to bring Aredhel back to life. Melkor agreed, but under one condition: Celegorm had to kill Dior and bring the lost Silmaril back to Morgoth. In desperation, Celegorm consented. Once Aredhel lived, Celegorm hid her in secret and safe place. He rallied his brothers, under excuse of fulfilling the oath, to kill Dior. Once Celegorm had the Silmaril, he walked away. He and Aredhel were never seen in Middle Earth again.

Rumours say that they lived and still live in blessed land. Maeglin and their unnamed daughter live with them under mercy of Valar.

[Galadriel55]

Urwen, this is about Lalaith, not Celegorm's love interest.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, in books it clearly states that Morwen (and Turin) suffered because Lalaith died. Hurin too. He tried to sing a song for his daughter, but failed and cursed Morgoth that Valar (and Turin) would finish him off.

They suffered? Bah! Morwen was the only one who stopped pretending at that point! But Hurin thought a great deal of what's "proper", that's why he tried to make a song. Why couldn't he make it? Didn't have enough words? But he knew that music can express what words can. So why did he throw away his harp? Because his "lament" turned to a song of celebration way too many times.

And why did he curse Morgoth? For giving him such a daughter, not for taking her away. He didn't do this before, because he was afraid Lalaith would find out and play an extra trick on him.

[Urwen]

But don't forget Nienor. Morwen named her 'mourning'

Why do you think she named her so? Hum hum

Burarum...rum..rum...

[Nerwen]

But don't forget Nienor. Morwen named her 'mourning'

Why do you think she named her so? Hum hum

Well, duh, because it was the exact opposite of "Lalaith"!

You see? She wasn't taking any chances...

[Urwen]

No, she name her thus because she mourned for Lalaith;;;;;;

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

No, she name her thus because she mourned for Lalaith;;;;;;

Nope. What an absurd idea! Why in Middle-earth would anyone mourn for Lalaith?!

[Urwen]

Because Lalaith was a happy child, and extremely happy daughter....

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Because Lalaith was a happy child, and extremely happy daughter....

Only when inflicting pain on other living beings.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Urwen's reactions toDay have been incredibly wolfish.

++Urwen

[satansaloser2005]

++Shasta for representative

[TPotSS]

I've always had a theory that Eru created Melkor because of Lalaith.

See, at first Eru was just going to make the children (Elves, Humans, etc) but then a glimpse of the future showed him Lalaith, and she was so annoying laughing and dancing all the time, so he thought something needed to be done, so- *poof* Melkor!

So she's kind of responsible for every evil ever.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Because Lalaith was a happy child, and extremely happy daughter....

No, it's because Hurin didn't return. Morwen was mourning for Hurin.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Rumours say that they lived and still live in blessed land. Maeglin and their unnamed daughter live with them under mercy of Valar.

Why on earth would the Valar reward Celegorm (to say nothing of Maeglin) for going over to Morgoth and murdering Dior?

[TPotSS]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Why on earth would the Valar reward Celegorm (to say nothing of Maeglin) for going over to Morgoth and murdering Dior?

Everyone knows the Valar are dumb. Just look at the way they handled Melkor and the Noldor.

"Go loose, Melkor. Have fun!"
"What? The most evil of evil guys did something evil?!"
"Feanor- we hereby punish you for failing to remain untainted by Melkor, despite the fact that tainting you was his number one objective and that he's too powerful for any lesser being to fully resist. How dare you not do the impossible!"
"Okay, so, I realize Melkor stole the greatest work of art ever and killed your dad, but just, you know, sit tight and don't do anything."
"Erm... We can stop the incredibly desperate Noldor from leaving by telling their friends in Alqualonde to refuse them help. Nothing bad can possibly come of that."

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

On a different note...

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...d=1#post650465