Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[the phantom]

Okay, seriously, only ONE post while I'm gone?!

Just got home, and while I was gone I received a voicemail from Sally which said, (paraphrasing here) "Please inform everyone that I don't feel well and can't get on the Downs and wish to vote for Lottie, but of course I understand that Rikae probably won't accept this as a proper vote, but just pass it along please."

So, yeah... This message from a player who isn't posting accounts for half the posting that has been done during the past hour and a half.

[the phantom]

THE VOTES:

Ang ++ Lottie
Green ++ Sally
Nerwen ++ Daughter

LEFT TO VOTE:
Glirdan
Daughter
Lottie
Wilwa
Legate
Sally
Phantom
Boro
Mith

Still quite a few people left to vote when one considers that we are nearing the final hour....

[Glirdan]

Okay, I just got back in from rehearsal (that I acutally completely forgot I had until I was leaving my apartment for work) and thus have had no chance to skim through anything. And I have a very unlikely chance of skimming through everything that i want to of Angu from the past few days. So, just a forewarning, my vote will more then likely be for Angu.

However, I'm going to do a quick read through of toDay's posts and see if anything else strikes me as Wolfish before I make my final decision.

[elronds_daughter]

Well, rats. I was hoping to have a lightbulb by the time I came back, but I haven't. I'm still going to put off voting for a little while yet, though. Leaning towards Ang or Boro or Mith, but I'm kind of afraid to take a shot in the dark, because I just don't know. And there's no way I can know. Which is endlessly frustrating.

[Rikae]

Since I offered to post Glirdan's vote for him when he couldn't log on, I should do the same for Sally, so:
[Sally]

++Lottie

[/Sally]

[Mithalwen]

Sorry, was asleep. Am here to the end now Ihope but won't leave it that long. Highly unlikely to vote Ang today. Don't think he seems so guilty and then there is the silence factor. Anyway. Need to see if anything posted of interest since I fell asleep.

[Loslote]

I'll have to vote a lot sooner than I thought I would, so I'm going to do something rather silly/stupid and go for one of our quieter people. I'm not saying she's a sub - I know she's busy in RL and everything - but I don't have anything better at the moment, so...

++ Vanilwuffin

EDIT: xed with Mith

[the phantom]

Really, Lottie? That's how you voted when under threat?

I can't decide if you're brilliant or insane. Because, you know, it really makes you look unWolfish, but of course there's the double-bluff layer to that... Bleh.

THE VOTES:

Ang ++ Lottie
Green ++ Sally
Nerwen ++ Daughter
Sally ++ Lottie (2)
Lottie ++ Wilwa

LEFT TO VOTE:
Glirdan
Daughter
Wilwa
Legate
Phantom
Boro
Mith

[Mithalwen]

Oh great another candidate. If Glirdan votes Ang then we will have five ...and the dead could decide things...

[Glirdan]

The one thing I've notice a lot of toDay is that there are a lot people consumed by the vote of the Dead, a few of which have been speaking about it quite actively. Boro and phantom come to mind. In fact, in both cases, their first few posts contained nothing but that subject, which does not sit well with me. It's an all too easy way for a Wolf or Cobbler to hide and draw attention away from the real matters at hand: finding the Wolves.

phantom, I noticed, seemed to have been the main contributor, going as far as even formulating a plan which included a Ranger reveal. I'll just say I don't quite agree with his ideas on the Ranger reveal, but I do agree that it would be nice to have one known innocent. Besides the point, he goes on with a master scenario on what would happen if the Ranger revealed. Now, because of this, I'm less inclined to think he's a Wolf. A Cobbler, perhaps, but not a Wolf. A Wolf wouldn't post something as drastic as saying "Hey, Ranger, come out and play and let the Wolves kill you" Actually, his entire post there seems, well, I hate to say it about phantom, but he seems genuinel innocent. He's being the regular, controlling, egotistical phantom.

The other candidate is Boro. He's spent just as much effort concentrating on it as phantom has. The only difference, is he's spent more effort concentrating on who the Dead should check which just doesn't sit well with me. It's okay to mention that he wouldn't "MIND" having a way of communicating with the dead, but it's an entirely different thing to try and force everyone to make a vote for who we want the Dead to check. And it's imposing on the mechanics of our Moddess's game. I just don't like it. Plain old simple as that. He could get my vote.

Elra is another one who is not sitting well with me. Like Nessa, she's been hiding in the shadows way too much. Now, I know that it is unlikely that two of the Wole are playing the low profile type, but we do not know Nessa's role so it is possible that it could be Elra instead. On top of it, she's too "I'm going to agree with everyone and hope I'm going to slide by" She's another I could vote for.

The more defensive Angu gets, the more I'm reminded of me when I'm cornered. I could believe him as innocent, but I'm still very leery of him because of his "tome" post. He also stands getting my vote.

Mith and Nerwen are sitting well with me. After skimming their posts, they both seem pretty logical, but I haven't gotten a chance to properly read their posts before toDay.


Two that I wouldn't mind taking a closer look at when I have more time are Lottie and Greenie as both have just been generally slipping under my radar, but from what I've seen, they've both been making a lot of sense, but that's just my impression of toDay.

I still refuse to vote for Wilwa on grounds of my meta-reasoning. Lommy posted on the Admin thread explaing Legate's absence and because of this, I would like to give him a free pass for the Day.

Which leaves Sally, who again, I haven't taken a proper look at at all and has been flying right under my radar. I think I may abstain from voting her just so I can take a closer look at her tomorrow.

Which brings me to my list:

Not voting for
phantom
Wilwa
Sally
Legate

Either Way
Greenie
Mith
Nerwen

Probably Voting
Boro
Angu
Elra
Lottie

Will vote very shortly

[Glirdan]

Lottie just moved up my list to potential vote for. Her vote does not sit well with me whatsoever and is an all to easy, scape goat vote, especially when Wilwa has not been around all Day to post, let alone defend herself. That and there's no true reasoning behind the vote itself and that makes me more uncomfortable.

EDIT: Sorry, she does have a reason which is going for one of our quieter people....Hmmmm....Geez....now I don't know what to think of her >_<

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Lottie just moved up my list to potential vote for. Her vote does not sit well with me whatsoever and is an all to easy, scape goat vote, especially when Wilwa has not been around all Day to post, let alone defend herself. That and there's not true reasoning behind the vote itself and that makes me more uncomfortable.

Yeah, I thought her vote was rather crazy. I mean, she's under threat but she votes for someone with no votes and doesn't seem likely to get more? Not a lot of reason behind it, and no sense of self-preservation whatsoever.

If you read my post earlier today, you'll see that I really began suspecting Lottie after my readthrough, but that vote of hers.... Gah! Drives me nuts!

Is she a Cobbler saying "Lynch me please!" or a Wolf saying "I'm a Cobbler!" or what? Meh... I'm really considering the possibility that I was wrong about her being a Wolf after all, and that I basically played right into her Cobbler game by coming to suspect her...

[Mithalwen]

It didn't seem an innocent vote more a cobbler falling on their sword. The downs slows when I try and page back but I could vote on the stupid nickname thing alone. gah 10 mins

[the phantom]

And where is everyone? It's seven minutes until the deadline...

I need to make a decision fast.

[the phantom]

I agree, Mith, but what does that mean for us? I'm not sure how to react. I was so ready to vote for her, but now it feels pointless...

[Glirdan]

Okay, that's it, ten minutes left and I'm going to vote and I'm going to stick with my gut on this one and go with

++Angu

Let me address some things first

1) I just feel more strongly about Angu being guilty then the rest of them

2) Lottie is flip-flopping too much toDay and even though her vote makes
me think she's suspicious, the fact that she voted completely safely, knowing no one else would go for it, makes me lean a little more either towards a very confusing innocent or a Cobbler

3) Elra, who is both also on my list and up on the voting list. I have not gotten a proper look at her myself and wish to look more in depth at her, like Sally

[Mithalwen]

For me prolly ED or Loslote don/t want multi lynch bog-up but now think L more cobblery

[the phantom]

Okay... I guess maybe I'll vote for Daughter then...

[Mithalwen]

++Loslote

Don't suspect ang dn 't want to risk multi lynch on a feeble day.

[the phantom]

++Daughter

(x-post bleh!)

[elronds_daughter]

Arghh! Okay. Shot in the dark.

++ Boro

[Mithalwen]

sorry tp had to decide....

[Rikae]

Lottie is dead. Anguirel had the extra vote.

The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
wilwarin538
Legate of Amon Lanc
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel


The dead:

Macalaure
Rikae
Mänwe
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir
Shastanis Althreduin
Thinlómien
Nessa Telrunya
Loslote

It is now Night 5.

[the phantom]

Jumping in with a Boro vote at the end? Really?

I guess Daughter isn't concerned with self-preservation either...

I guess EVERYONE is a Cobbler.

[Rikae]

The elves awoke with the hope that the one who had defended them the Night before had prevented another killing, but instead they found three bodies. Mith had been gruesomely torn apart as had the others before her, but Legate and Wilwa were untouched. Beside Legate they found an empty cup, and a similar one in Wilwa's hand contained a small amount of clear liquid. They decided to allow the winner of the Day's election the honor of sampling this to determine what it might be.

The Living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Anguirel

The Dead:

Rikae
Macalaure
Mänwe
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir
Shastanis Althreduin
Thinlómien
Nessa Telrunya
Loslote
Mithalwen

Really most sincerely dead:
wilwarin538 - ordinary innocent
Legate of Amon Lanc - cobbler

Day 5 has begun. You may now post.

[the phantom]

Okay, so, LOTS to talk about today! A few things...

Lommy was not a Wolf. Ugh.

We will find out about Nessa today. If she's guilty then Green, Nerwen, Phantom, or Ang will receive an extra vote.

Yesterday's lynch was weird, and I think we need to decide whether or not we want the Dead Thread to check Lottie. The case against her I felt was quite strong for a Wolf, but there at the end she had the obvious look of a Cobbler.

Personally I think Cobbler is the most likely, however, if she was a Wolf her move was actually quite a brilliant one, seeing as there were still enough voters out there to save her and it made her, as I said, look so obviously like a Cobbler.

And then of course there is Daughter's seeming lack of interest in keeping herself alive. Another Cobbler? Or is it at all possible that both of them were willing to bite the bullet because the alternate candidate was a fellow Wolf? Or was Daughter the Cobbler betting Lottie was her Wolf master? I would VERY much like to find out what was going on.

Daughter- what do you have to say?

[the phantom]

Ha ha ha! I think the Dead Thread just got spammed. Somebody named "RHCC" just posted there.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yesterday's lynch was weird, and I think we need to decide whether or not we want the Dead Thread to check Lottie. The case against her I felt was quite strong for a Wolf, but there at the end she had the obvious look of a Cobbler.

Personally I think Cobbler is the most likely, however, if she was a Wolf her move was actually quite a brilliant one, seeing as there were still enough voters out there to save her and it made her, as I said, look so obviously like a Cobbler.

And then of course there is Daughter's seeming lack of interest in keeping herself alive. Another Cobbler? Or is it at all possible that both of them were willing to bite the bullet because the alternate candidate was a fellow Wolf? Or was Daughter the Cobbler betting Lottie was her Wolf master? I would VERY much like to find out what was going on.

Elra had just seen the "hey-wait-guys–she's-only-a-cobbler" reaction to Lottie's throwaway vote– maybe it seemed like a wise move to her to follow suit?

I think the Dead should check Lottie, yes– however we cannot now afford to wait on the result: if we haven't in fact managed to lynch a wolf yet we are in major trouble. I think it's necessary now to work from assumptions: "If Lottie/Nessa was a wolf, who might her packmates be? If neither was, what other pattern makes sense?" Etc.

Anyway, what does everyone make of this?–

Originally Posted by Rikae

Beside Legate they found an empty cup, and a similar one in Wilwa's hand contained a small amount of clear liquid. They decided to allow the winner of the Day's election the honor of sampling this to determine what it might be.

[Boromir88]

I'm a gonna have to vote really early, due to a new job that's taking me away for the weekend. (But I likes this new job, much, yes I does )

I should be generally around until 12 EST, then will have to vote.

[Rikae]

Because Legate and Wilwa are not simply dead, but no longer playing, I've decided to reveal what their roles were (check the narration).

I decided to treat their roles differently from BG's since it is later in the game and they are actually dropping out.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Anyway, what does everyone make of this?

Well, it's a bloody disaster, isn't it. I think Rikae said their roles were to be revealed? The substance is clearly virulent poison, and it looks to me like we've lost two further innocents at an utterly crippling point.

For the record I'll be very surprised, too, if Nessa turns out to be a wolf. I do though think we are one wolf down. I'm so sure about Loslote that if I'm wrong about her I'm probably wrong about Nessa...

I distrust the phantom with extreme prejudice. I don't like his immediate if typical attempt to claim the Day's direction and steer it towards Elron, a vulnerable, easy-to-lynch candidate whom he knows many people (me for instance) vaguely suspect. As in WW I itself, our "two luminaries", phantom and Boro, the great statistical plotters, are at war. It is very unlikely that both are guilty. At the moment I would also say that neither are wolves, and that phantom is, after all, a Cobbler.

Which means we cannot dismiss that aboriginal question. Was Nogrod telling the truth?

Another thing we should consider is that Mith was almost certainly the object of last night's protection. Let's just hope she wasn't also the protector (I think this unlikely; while I've seen Mith be an excellent Draugluin ranger protecting herself wouldn't be her style).

This day is very perilous and we may well be dealing with a majority hostile population. It really doesn't help that two of the people I felt best about happened to choose to withdraw. Absolutely hamstringing.

Can I just reassure the Moddess, though, who seems to worry that this game isn't working in the admin thread, that in its traumatic, stressful, fiendish way it is very exciting indeed, and I at least am glad I participated.

I'll go through my feelings about the remainder of our camp quickly -

Glirdan - as laid out above, a relatively high level of trust that unfortunately you seem unlikely to reciprocate.
A Little Green - you've acted quietly and judiciously and been quite fairminded about me re sally, which is of course simultaneously reassuring and worrying. But there are others I suspect more.
Nerwen has been helpful and clear-thinking and I would be very reluctant to lynch her; she reminds me of an innocent Firefoot, sorry to be retro
sally your vote was I think helpful and you took lengths to produce it. Your alliance with phantom seems unsettlingly unconditional though. You keep saying "I'm so amazed to find myself agreeing him". I'm not very amazed. On the other hand if you are wolf Loslote is not one. A wolf for wolf vote could never be so baroque
phantom and Boro, see above
Elron, leaning framed innocent purely because of phantom's apparent desire to see you dead

damnation, I seem genuinely only to suspect the phantom now. Consumed in obsession. And I don't even think he's a wolf, just a Cobbler.

sally voted for both Nessa and Loslote, a very good looking record but, oh, Eru, could we still have three wolves?

[Anguirel]

Just seen Rikae's new information. It is helpful to know that Legate - whom phantom as well as I, I noticed, assumed was looking innocent - was illwilled. That seems to cast more conclusive doubt on Nogrod's case (provided Legate knew what he was doing), for Legate was his longest and latest supporter.

[Anguirel]

Now Mith, my only countrywoman as well as the only person with whom I was in a real position of mutual trust, is down I know there won't be action here for a while. Still there's still one question I'd like sorted.

This game has involved a lot of bossing by villagers; bossing of the Gifteds, bossing of the Dead. I really disapprove of this style of doing things, as I've mentioned. But I must admit I lean towards advising Glorfindel to come out, really. We have so little other information. We could even (very much not my way of doing things this) put that question to a vote, in which case I would be for (though of course our protector need not be bound my such a vote)


and one other matter. How near are we, statistically, to defeat? Could someone better at counting than I am (seriously, I study poetry, I dropped maths at fifteen, I am mentally and verbally innumerate) help me out here? If there are two wolves, does one failed lynch and one kill finish us? let me see. 2 from 8 = 6. Now if there are three - yeah. If there are three we're seriously close to the wall now, especially as there's probably still a cobbler around, even if I'm pretty sure his name is phantom

[Boromir88]

My vote the previous day would have been either for phantom or Lottie. And if I was on to see the situation, then would have voted Lottie, for whatever that's worse. It wouldn't have changed the outcome.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

and one other matter. How near are we, statistically, to defeat? Could someone better at counting than I am (seriously, I study poetry, I dropped maths at fifteen, I am mentally and verbally innumerate) help me out here? If there are two wolves, does one failed lynch and one kill finish us? let me see. 2 from 8 = 6. Now if there are three - yeah. If there are three we're seriously close to the wall now, especially as there's probably still a cobbler around, even if I'm pretty sure his name is phantom

With Legate being a known cobbler, doesn't it seem like we've already killed 5 cobblers so far?

Obviously that's not possible, and it's feasible that all those turning up not-wolves, are indeed not cobblers. But taking out Legate, there's two left and it's entirely plausible one of the known not-wolves in the dead thread is cobblery.

I guess my point is, at this stage in the game, we have to go for straight up tricky and false behavior. If the person's a cobbler, and we lose, so be it. But we can't have 5-6 cobblers running around here, so there's got to be wolves in this forsaken place somewhere.

My jump on phantom boils down to I think that was an orchestrated double-lynch be phantom and Lottie. Lottie we know, follows around phantom like a puppy, and having played wolves with her before, she will take a bullet for a packmate. Phantom could have easily set that play up at night, by cherry-picking Lommy (which I admit I fell for because I thought her behavior was being completely ridiculous) while Lottie (or another packmate) go after Nessa.

And now that I'm on this subject, don't you find that business between Nog and phantom a bit too clean? Nog sets the noose around his own neck, and phantom starts proclaiming he knew what Nog was going to do, after the previous day defending Nog.

Add on top of that, phantom's plans and his post on Glorfindel's reveal, I truly and completely disagreed with. It was far too early to ask Glorfindel to reveal his/her info. And to argue that he wanted Glorfindel out and then to force the wolf pack into believing they had to kill him is ridiculous. Even though this was only yesterday, with basically what amounts to a triple-lynch during the night, if Glorfy's alive, looking at the desperate situation and need for some type of tangible roles...now is as good of a time as any for Glorfy to step out.

However, no one needs to go on their high horse and start vehemently demanding it. *Remembers what wolf-Nog and cobbler-me did to poor Wilwa-Ranger in a not so distant past.*

[Boromir88]

My last post is saying, believe me or not, it makes no difference to me.

The most manipulative and mis-leading player this entire duration has been the phantom. Lynch him, even if he may only turn up cobbler.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Well, it's a bloody disaster, isn't it. I think Rikae said their roles were to be revealed? The substance is clearly virulent poison, and it looks to me like we've lost two further innocents at an utterly crippling point.

An innocent and a cobbler, as it turns out. But I meant this part:

Originally Posted by The narration

They decided to allow the winner of the Day's election the honor of sampling this to determine what it might be.

A further twist in the game? It seems to imply toDay's double-voter will die.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

If there are two wolves, does one failed lynch and one kill finish us? let me see. 2 from 8 = 6. Now if there are three - yeah. If there are three we're seriously close to the wall now, especially as there's probably still a cobbler around, even if I'm pretty sure his name is phantom

I don't think there can be more than three villains (of all kinds) still living. But that's still pretty bad.

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boro

My jump on phantom boils down to I think that was an orchestrated double-lynch be phantom and Lottie. Lottie we know, follows around phantom like a puppy, and having played wolves with her before, she will take a bullet for a packmate. Phantom could have easily set that play up at night, by cherry-picking Lommy (which I admit I fell for because I thought her behavior was being completely ridiculous) while Lottie (or another packmate) go after Nessa.

And now that I'm on this subject, don't you find that business between Nog and phantom a bit too clean? Nog sets the noose around his own neck, and phantom starts proclaiming he knew what Nog was going to do, after the previous day defending Nog.

First part makes sense, but you're surely not implying Nog and tp are packmates, are you? Nog tried to get himself checked in Mandos, remember, which more-or-less rules him out as a wolf.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

A further twist in the game? It seems to imply toDay's double-voter will die.

No twists. The person "elected" to be lynched toDay will die, (as usual).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

No twists. The person "elected" to be lynched toDay will die, (as usual).

All right, thank you for clearing that up.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

It is very unlikely that both are guilty. At the moment I would also say that neither are wolves, and that phantom is, after all, a Cobbler.

Which means we cannot dismiss that aboriginal question. Was Nogrod telling the truth?

Well, I hope not! Phantom's being a cobbler wouldn't prove it, anyway– I mean, it seems to me half this game has consisted of people yelling "Cobbler!" at each other; no doubt sometimes both have been right. (Unfortunately I guess there's still quite a good chance we've managed to lose the Seer one way or another anyhow.)

I expect either Boro or phantom is a baddie of some description anyway. Based on recent events and posting I'm leaning more towards phantom, but it's late at night here and I have a splitting headache. I need to see how things look in the morning.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Nog tried to get himself checked in Mandos, remember, which more-or-less rules him out as a wolf.

Sorry didn't make that part of it clear. My thought was Nog's a cobbler, got stuck in a situation where all he could do was beg to be lynched. wolf-Phantom who from what I remember "cobblers are canon-fodder" philosophy, thus pushed for his lynch. Believing Nog was not only a cobbler, but would be a trouble-maker in the dead thread. I mean would anyone expect Nog to let death shut him up?

This part is probably far-fetched, but I've basically come to the conclusion that I think the double-lynch of Lommy and Nessa had wolf paws all over it. And what's just completely incomprehensible to me is how does phantom get off jumping Mith for vascillating on her vote plans Day 1, putting him in a tough spot, but not seem particularly bothered by the double-lynch that he and Lottie did?