Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Speaking of the Dead, who are they supposed to be checking? Nessa? ToDay's lynch? Nessa-only-if-Lommy's-innocent? Or what?

They should check Nessa if Lommy was innocent. That's the best way to turn yesterday's lynch into actual information. I'm going to continue pushing it and assume that the Dead will do it. I mean- why should they honor a vote from us if we vote for them to do something that isn't the best course of action?

I'm going to work on the assumption that our proven innocents (Beren & Luthien) have enough sway down there to make sure everyone falls in line and does what makes the most sense tactically.

Green- nice case there. Hmmm... *looks at Sally*

Originally Posted by Boro

Lottie and phantom are topping my suspect list. I think that was an orchestrated double-lynch. And both of their attempts to pass it off as no big deal, with Lottie's "see it was a good exchange, because of Glorfindel!" Not going to convince me a double-lynch is a good exchange.

Why don't you double-lynch us then?

But really, I'm quite curious which of us you'll feel keen to go for, because as the day wears on I assume you'll need to focus on one or the other. Just a warning- if you choose me, I doubt I'll side with you.

Lottie on the other hand.... It's been days since she's given me a Rep vote. Very suspicious.

[the phantom]

Okay, more seriously now, I will do a Lottie read-over, as I promised earlier that I would (to either Boro or Ang... can't remember which).

*off to read*

[the phantom]

REVIEW OF LOTTIE

Day 1 early- Lottie banters. Whatever. She always does. I usually don't put much stock in early banter by serial banterers.
Day 1 later- Lottie makes her first serious post and attempts to appear unconcerned with death and takes a shot at Manwe (our eventual lynch). Nerwen soon after makes a nice point about how Lottie's post curiously assumes the innocence of Nog and Shasta.

Day 2 early- Makes a list. Critical of Lommy and Boro.
Day 2 later- Backs Nogrod. Says Phantom as Cobbler makes Lommy look better, which is odd seeing as a Cobbler has no clue who the Wolves are, so why would a Cobbler attack indicate innocence? Says that leaves her prime suspect at Boro.
Day 2 later still- Continues to defend Nog as best she can (in particular talking with me) but eventually votes against him after Agan's "I'm Luthien!" trap.

Day 3- Ah, I see Lommy actually brought up the same points from Day 2, and Lottie attempts to answer them. Her explanations aren't complete nonsense. I do at least put stock in her assertion that Cobbler is probably ruled out for her. She's either innocent or Wolf. Her comment about Fea not being a strong Seer candidate seems to imply that she's gone over people with a Seer comb, though of course even innocents do that sometimes.
Day 3 later- Says she's okay with offing Lommy or Nessa, but prefers the latter. Moves to a more firm Nessa position. Votes to cause the tie. In her defense it easily could have been a cross-post, but of course if she had been keeping track of who was around and which way they were likely to vote she could've seen it coming.

Day 4 early- Her reaction to Ang placing her in a pack of three is to defend herself and the others. I may be mistaken, but a more innocent reaction would be to fear that you are being tied to Wolves, since they do like to tie themselves to innocent (to bring them down if they happen to fall). I would think an innocent would be a bit more paranoid about that possibility, where as a brilliant Wolfish response might be to appear innocent by defending everyone involved and in the process possibly win over those you are linked to, which goes back to the Wolves linking themselves purposefully with innocents.

After the lynch (both yesterday and today) she seems quite apologetic about causing the double, which might make me more suspicious of her. I mean, she did say that she could see lynching both of them, and she certainly favored Nessa dying and her vote killed Nessa, so why be sorry? I can only assume it's a show for appearances.

So okay, you know what? Going into this reread I really don't think I had much of a bias, but Lottie now is looking quite bad to me.

[the phantom]

Where is everyone?

Well, I have to leave soon. I'll be back for the final hour/hour-and-a-half.

Before I leave, as a final word to the dead regarding how we will interpret tomorrow's bonus vote, I stick by what I said earlier-

Originally Posted by Phantom

Dead- ignore this ridiculous business with us voting on who to check tonight. What you decide to do should be dependent upon the identity of Lommy. If you find her guilty, check our future lynches. If you find her innocent, check Nessa.

We need yesterday's vote to be meaningful, and that is the best way to do it. Go with that unless I am overruled by a considerable majority of others (i.e. everyone) who for some reason wish to decide for themselves between Nessa and today's lynch. I would rather leave the decision in your hands based upon what you found with Lommy.

As far as my intentions towards the living, I'm undecided. After that last readthrough I am quite wary of Lottie, but if she doesn't get any votes it would be pointless for me to go in that direction, in which case... I'm not certain. I would've said Boro before, but as he has been one pushing Lottie I am considering giving him a temporary break and looking elsewhere. Out of Daughter and Sally, the former makes the most sense to me at this time, but I do admit that I haven't given Sally a proper read. If it does come down to those two, I will do my best to make myself more informed before I vote.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

In her defense it easily could have been a cross-post, but of course if she had been keeping track of who was around and which way they were likely to vote she could've seen it coming.

It was a cross post. And yeah, I knew it might happen, but I wasn't sure. I said I was planning on voting for Nessa, and after four minutes of nothing since my post asking who was around, voted right at DL. After all, it was that or risk leaving the vote as it was - still a double lynch.

Day 4 early- Her reaction to Ang placing her in a pack of three is to defend herself and the others. I may be mistaken, but a more innocent reaction would be to fear that you are being tied to Wolves, since they do like to tie themselves to innocent (to bring them down if they happen to fall). I would think an innocent would be a bit more paranoid about that possibility, where as a brilliant Wolfish response might be to appear innocent by defending everyone involved and in the process possibly win over those you are linked to, which goes back to the Wolves linking themselves purposefully with innocents.

Nah, I just raised my eyebrows at the fact that Ang's list listed as wolves three people that I very much didn't think of as wolves. I don't think I can remember being tied to a wolf as an innocent...I've seen it happen, yeah, but it's never happened to me personally.

After the lynch (both yesterday and today) she seems quite apologetic about causing the double, which might make me more suspicious of her. I mean, she did say that she could see lynching both of them, and she certainly favored Nessa dying and her vote killed Nessa, so why be sorry? I can only assume it's a show for appearances.

I didn't want a double lynch. Or at least, I didn't want a double lynch that Day. Coupled with the Lovers' deaths, it ended up killing off a lot of people. Boro said something somewhere about how Glorfy's save didn't negate the double lynch, but it does. I'm not bothered by the idea of a double lynch as such. I'm more bothered by losing extreme amounts of people. Glorfy's save evened out the numbers. We lost the same number of players that we would have without either a double lynch or a Glorfy save. But with the double lynch and Glorfy save, both dead people could have been evil. With a Glorfy save and no double lynch, only one of them could have been evil. The other had to be innocent.

[the phantom]

Okay, seriously, only ONE post while I'm gone?!

Just got home, and while I was gone I received a voicemail from Sally which said, (paraphrasing here) "Please inform everyone that I don't feel well and can't get on the Downs and wish to vote for Lottie, but of course I understand that Rikae probably won't accept this as a proper vote, but just pass it along please."

So, yeah... This message from a player who isn't posting accounts for half the posting that has been done during the past hour and a half.

[the phantom]

THE VOTES:

Ang ++ Lottie
Green ++ Sally
Nerwen ++ Daughter

LEFT TO VOTE:
Glirdan
Daughter
Lottie
Wilwa
Legate
Sally
Phantom
Boro
Mith

Still quite a few people left to vote when one considers that we are nearing the final hour....

[Glirdan]

Okay, I just got back in from rehearsal (that I acutally completely forgot I had until I was leaving my apartment for work) and thus have had no chance to skim through anything. And I have a very unlikely chance of skimming through everything that i want to of Angu from the past few days. So, just a forewarning, my vote will more then likely be for Angu.

However, I'm going to do a quick read through of toDay's posts and see if anything else strikes me as Wolfish before I make my final decision.

[elronds_daughter]

Well, rats. I was hoping to have a lightbulb by the time I came back, but I haven't. I'm still going to put off voting for a little while yet, though. Leaning towards Ang or Boro or Mith, but I'm kind of afraid to take a shot in the dark, because I just don't know. And there's no way I can know. Which is endlessly frustrating.

[Rikae]

Since I offered to post Glirdan's vote for him when he couldn't log on, I should do the same for Sally, so:
[Sally]

++Lottie

[/Sally]

[Glirdan]

The one thing I've notice a lot of toDay is that there are a lot people consumed by the vote of the Dead, a few of which have been speaking about it quite actively. Boro and phantom come to mind. In fact, in both cases, their first few posts contained nothing but that subject, which does not sit well with me. It's an all too easy way for a Wolf or Cobbler to hide and draw attention away from the real matters at hand: finding the Wolves.

phantom, I noticed, seemed to have been the main contributor, going as far as even formulating a plan which included a Ranger reveal. I'll just say I don't quite agree with his ideas on the Ranger reveal, but I do agree that it would be nice to have one known innocent. Besides the point, he goes on with a master scenario on what would happen if the Ranger revealed. Now, because of this, I'm less inclined to think he's a Wolf. A Cobbler, perhaps, but not a Wolf. A Wolf wouldn't post something as drastic as saying "Hey, Ranger, come out and play and let the Wolves kill you" Actually, his entire post there seems, well, I hate to say it about phantom, but he seems genuinel innocent. He's being the regular, controlling, egotistical phantom.

The other candidate is Boro. He's spent just as much effort concentrating on it as phantom has. The only difference, is he's spent more effort concentrating on who the Dead should check which just doesn't sit well with me. It's okay to mention that he wouldn't "MIND" having a way of communicating with the dead, but it's an entirely different thing to try and force everyone to make a vote for who we want the Dead to check. And it's imposing on the mechanics of our Moddess's game. I just don't like it. Plain old simple as that. He could get my vote.

Elra is another one who is not sitting well with me. Like Nessa, she's been hiding in the shadows way too much. Now, I know that it is unlikely that two of the Wole are playing the low profile type, but we do not know Nessa's role so it is possible that it could be Elra instead. On top of it, she's too "I'm going to agree with everyone and hope I'm going to slide by" She's another I could vote for.

The more defensive Angu gets, the more I'm reminded of me when I'm cornered. I could believe him as innocent, but I'm still very leery of him because of his "tome" post. He also stands getting my vote.

Mith and Nerwen are sitting well with me. After skimming their posts, they both seem pretty logical, but I haven't gotten a chance to properly read their posts before toDay.


Two that I wouldn't mind taking a closer look at when I have more time are Lottie and Greenie as both have just been generally slipping under my radar, but from what I've seen, they've both been making a lot of sense, but that's just my impression of toDay.

I still refuse to vote for Wilwa on grounds of my meta-reasoning. Lommy posted on the Admin thread explaing Legate's absence and because of this, I would like to give him a free pass for the Day.

Which leaves Sally, who again, I haven't taken a proper look at at all and has been flying right under my radar. I think I may abstain from voting her just so I can take a closer look at her tomorrow.

Which brings me to my list:

Not voting for
phantom
Wilwa
Sally
Legate

Either Way
Greenie
Mith
Nerwen

Probably Voting
Boro
Angu
Elra
Lottie

Will vote very shortly