Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Shasta - is fully of shenanigans, but I'm not all together concerned that they're wolftastic ones. Reserve the right to change my mind. Not voting for him.

Nogrod - is observant and talkative. I approve of both things. Not voting for him, unless I decide he'd be super useful once Dead.

Aganzir - is pretty on top of seeing pros and cons in different courses of action. Worth keeping around because she offers prompt and honest critique of ideas.

Legate - seems coherent. Didn't set off any alarm bells and posts with enough content to keep me docile in terms of his life span.

Lommy - Ditto what I said about Legate.
the phantom - is offering ideas. Knowing him, the ideas are both solid suggestions and veiled tests. Also knowing him, we won't find out who passes or fails the tests. However, still knowing him, he's useful.

Boromir88 - amuses me. Speaks sense. Atta boy.

Mithalwen - Sensible. Concise. I love concision.

Anguirel - makes astute observations about the dynamics between players and rules. I'd like to keep him around purely because he rocks the logic.

Glirdan - ...
A Little Green - ...
elronds_daughter - ...
Mänwe - ...
Nerwen - ...
Loslote - ...
Wilwa - ...
Nessa - ...
Blind Guardian - ...
satansaloser2005 - ...
So obviously if I haven't formed an opinion, you're up for my vote. My general plan is to Deadify somebody that is active enough that they'll be useful Dead (as opposed to Deadifying somebody that will do nothing of value in the Dead Thread). So don't be surprised if I vote for somebody that seems active and rational: it's not that I want to kill awesome good guys, it's that I want to ascertain that the purpose of the Dead Thread isn't mucked up via us staffing its walls with mutes.

[Mänwe]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

So obviously if I haven't formed an opinion, you're up for my vote. My general plan is to Deadify somebody that is active enough that they'll be useful Dead (as opposed to Deadifying somebody that will do nothing of value in the Dead Thread).

So you're just as prepared to vote those for whom you have made an opinion? As they fit your 'deadify' plan the best..

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Instead we lynched the Seer on Day 1. Shasta was that Seer. He made the same over-defensiveness then as he is now, and a Wolf/Cobbler Shasta would not be so blatant to draw THAT much bad attention to himself. He is definitely safe from my vote.

Too obvious for a double bluff?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Mänwe

So you're just as prepared to vote those for whom you have made an opinion? As they fit your 'deadify' plan the best..

No. If I have an opinion, I already think you're too valuable to die on the first day. My vote will come from the people in the 'eh, I don't care' group, but will probably come from more active members of that sampling.

Originally Posted by Nessa

This is some of the best sense I've heard toDay. Not particularly because it's sally she contemplates lynching, but because the concept itself seems pretty good.

Sally is on the list, but just for clarification, the list is composed of anybody with that uncertain dot dot dot after their name.

Originally Posted by Ang

elronds_daughter - I'd be more comfortable calling her Celebrian

But Elrond's daughter was... Arwen...



Okay. Dead tired, so if I fall asleep before voting, blame the fact that I've had a pretty insane past few days and I'm snuggled in bed watching season two of Buffy. I'm *trying* to be awake for deadline, but I make no promises.

[Anguirel]

Ouch Fea, re Elrond and his brats. What can I say. It's been a while...

[Glirdan]

I'm going to do a quick analysis of Lommy's post.....all three of them

POST #62

Her first post of the day.

First bit is mainly banter (and I'm going to assume this may include the bit about lynching phantom today as well.....no matter how much I would like to see it happen :P )

*raises an eyebrow* I think their priority would still be the seer, thank you very much Mr Cobbler.

Actually, this statement alone seem pretty cobblerish to me. Noggins raised a very valuable point on the Wolves (a very obvious one however, which makes me raise my eyebrow in his general direction). My question is why is this Cobblerish at all? The only thing that is remotely suspicious is the fact that he is stating the obvious, and that isn't that suspicious, people do it all the time.....well, to be a little more accurate, I do it all the time.

Quotes Nerwen and raises a valuable point about the Hunter.

What seems to be a little bit more banter with [b]Boro[b/]

Says shes paranoid about the Cobblers and that there are more people messing with our heads and wants them gone, but still states that the Wolves are our main priority.

A little more banter with Mith and Sally and about Legate

Quite optimistic, given that the regular scenario is that the wolves spot the seer early on and the ranger lives until the end game, which is kind of unlike what we want this time. In this game, we really got to use our wits (even) more than usual. A random vote from anyone toDay and you have a host of hostile penguins at your door. Just warning.

This whole quote (which is in response to something of Boro's) has me quite befuddled. What are you trying to say?? As for the random vote, whether we like it or not, Day 1 votes are always random and Day 2 will always bring "a host of hostile penguins at your door" as you so put it. We don't have anything substantial to go on for our votes on Day 1 unless someone outwardly yells "Look here!! I'm a Wolf!". The only difference with this game is that it is going to be like that for pretty much the whole game, unless we have a Gifted who died come back and help inform us. And even then, there always stands the possibility that a Cobbler or Wolf is manipulating the outcome.

Her last comment for that post was in response to Ang saying that she believes him to be wolfish.

POST #64

She makes a suspicion list.....after possibly a page and a half of posts, one page of which was pure banter.....The list itself seeming like it's pretty much all banter........Hmmmmm.....

She does say however, and I quote:

Normally I don't suspect anyone, this time I suspect almost everyone.

Just a theory.....perhaps because of the type of game things of flipped for her??

POST #76

After three posts (all of which, may I add were pretty well close together [ie. 62, 64, 76]), she votes Manwe, who had one post at the time and was basic banter.





Okay, I think I kind of see everyone's point on her now. She seems a little, wish-washy, for lack of a better word. And her reasoning for her vote for Manwe could just as easily be applied to about five other players, myself included. It seems like it's a throw away vote. But if that's the case, why not just say it's a throw away vote??


EDIT: X'ed since my last

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

So yeah, I don't know if I should go all Nilp on y'all and find out what all the Dead Thread's good for, or if I should actually try to stay alive.

Yeah, normally I try to make some pretense at fighting the inevitable lynch, but this time I was just going to try for "First Dead Head". And so, naturally, this turns out to be the one game that I don't come back to a lovely little clump of votes.

Originally Posted by Mänwe

I think this may have just been more fuel for the fire...

I don't like the way he seems to be sitting back and laughing at the 'spat' between Shasta and Nog, but what's worse is he then pokes and prods them in a seeming attempt to escalate the fight more. By pointing out the one line in Nog's post that could be taken the wrong way, Mänwe's making things worse, not A) ignoring it so we can move on and try to hunt wolves or B) trying to resolve the fight so we can move on and try to hunt wolves.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++NERWEN

Active enough to be useful in the next life, not so active I'll miss her desperately in this one.

Voting now because I'm not going to be awake for DL (especially since B88 informed me that DL is an hour after I'd thought it was). Literally can't keep my eyes open. Nighty night, all.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes– except you're at the least the second person to vote on the grounds that the target would be a "useful ghost". I don't like that reasoning at all.

I agree with that. The idea of a "useful ghost" seems extremely weird to me. The only truly "useful ghosts" are the thread-hoppers. Everyone else will simply be exactly who they are just posting on a different thread, and if they were mistrusted to the point that they were lynched by the Living, what are the odds that they will have much chance at influencing the Dead for positive purposes? I mean, they could certainly, but I imagine that trust on the Dead-Thread will be strongly on the side of Night-kills.

I mean, it almost sounds as if the reasoning is, "This person is vocal and probably will serve us well in death!" in which case you ought to go ahead and say outright that you have to intention of lynching a Wolf this day, but rather someone that could also be helpful on the Living thread that you may come to trust and so on... I dunno... I feel as if my rebuke isn't making great sense because really I can't make much sense of the idea I'm speaking against.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry I did my old lady doze off on the sofa thing. Hope I have another hour..*yawn* but have to say random stab in the dark and Somnus look good now...

[the phantom]

As far as Nog versus Shasta, upon rereading Shasta's post I'm more than ever leaning towards both of them being innocent.

Glirdan has already expressed most of what I would say regarding Shasta's defense (it shouts "innocent" to me as much as anything I've seen from anyone today).

Similarly, when I look at the way in which Nog accused Shasta, while it may be wrong it does not strike me as invention. His claim that Shasta particularly went after him rather than me based upon who would be around at the deadline- it really sounds like honest paranoia and annoyance. If I recall I have actually been chided for doing the same thing- always assuming that all the baddies are out to get me in particular, and so if someone did to me what Shasta did to Nog I can well imagine having a "Ah ha! Trying to kill me, eh?!" reaction to it, and building the case from there.

[Boromir88]

I'm completely lost on this entire voting for people to be good to control the dead thread. Umm, am I mistaken in believing we win by lynching wolves in the living thread? I'm sorry I'm just not understanding this logic of filling the dead thread with people we actually think are innocent...? Why are we even planning this?

1) We win by killing wolves in this life, not by filling the dead place with innocents. Am I foolish in thinking those two things contradict?

2) Simple numbers work out that innocents will control the dead thread. It serves the wolves little good to get lynched, or they lose. Maybe one wolf would start going to work if lynched, but that's not something we should concern ourselves with. And even if Cobblers seek to get themselves killed to work beyond the grave, they don't know who the wolves are.

3) What's so special about the dead thread it MUST UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES be in the control of the innocents or we're doomed? Someone from the living thread gets 2 votes...that's all yes? It's not like the dead are choosing an unstoppable force each day in the living thread, one person gets one extra vote.

So, let's end this silly "we should think about keeping the control of the dead thread in the hands of the innocents" when the real problem should be, handling the business of this thread...lynch wolves.

[the phantom]

Voting-

Lommy ++ Manwe
Legate ++ Nessa
Green ++ Lommy
Shasta ++ Nog
Agan ++ Nog (2)
Shasta ++ Shasta
Manwe ++ Green
Daughter ++ Nog (3)
Nessa ++ Legate
Fea ++ Nerwen

[Anguirel]

You're right Boromir, and what you say needs to be said; but it kind of has been said. Perhaps more volume won't go amiss. As I suggested, I think the dead Thread's getting a lot of concentration as an idea because it's new, shiny, and mysterious, a bit more interesting than the turgid if important business, often unrewarding, of hunting a wolf on Day One. But we seem to have let it distract us overmuch. My fault among others.

Mith, as far as I know I'm not scrapping with Fea, I just disagree with the reasoning of her vote. Or rather, I think its real reasoning is exhaustion, which means it's sort of lost sight of Slaying Enemies...

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Boro

3) What's so special about the dead thread it MUST UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES be in the control of the innocents or we're doomed? Someone from the living thread gets 2 votes...that's all yes? It's not like the dead are choosing an unstoppable force each day in the living thread, one person gets one extra vote.

I definitely understand this and totally agree that worrying about the dead thread should not be our concern....at this time. It will, if it comes down to it closer to the end, take more precendence as the game progresses and have a bigger impact then. Here's the scenario I have playing in my head

Down to four villagers and three Wolves. All the Wolves band together to kill one of the four villagers, the extra two votes kick in (lets say for a Wolf), thus killing a Wolf (if xe has two votes at this point), revealing who the other two Wolves are. Village wins.

That's the LAST CASE SCENARIO. Why all the talk about worrying who's in the dead thread now and what kind of impact it will have now (excluding if one of the Gifteds were to die). Really, it should be those who are alive later in the game who worry about it then. At least that's my understanding of the thread, because at this stage of the game, whether we come to Day 2 with 18 or 19 players, those two votes won't go a very long way. They will help, most definitely, but they will not have final impact.

X'ed with phantom (x2), Nerwen and Ang

[Nessa Telrunya]

Sorry, but I've gotta get in my vote before DL! (Even if I'll probably miss everything )

++Legate

Because he voted me. And he's useful/won't muddy the waters in the dead thread.

Dear heavens, someone shoot me. I just made the worst vote ever, didn't I?

[Boromir88]

I find myself having trouble concentrating anything after being referred to as Bobbler. Nice one Greenie.

I actually feel quite good about Lommy, even with that completely erratic cobbler hinting thing that I supposedly did...? I think Lommy's just trying to recover from smashing up her bororadar from the last few games that she is forcing herself into seeing everything I do as some twisted evil plot, as a form of revenge. Even if I think she had a nice working bororadar. It just needed updating, like a 2.0 version, or Bororadar Premium Edition.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

Sorry, but I've gotta get in my vote before DL! (Even if I'll probably miss everything )

++Legate

Because he voted me. And he's useful/won't muddy the waters in the dead thread.

Dear heavens, someone shoot me. I just made the worst vote ever, didn't I?

Yes– except you're at the least the second person to vote on the grounds that the target would be a "useful ghost". I don't like that reasoning at all.

EDIT:X'd with Fea. DItto that one.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lottie

I don't like the way he seems to be sitting back and laughing at the 'spat' between Shasta and Nog, but what's worse is he then pokes and prods them in a seeming attempt to escalate the fight more. By pointing out the one line in Nog's post that could be taken the wrong way, Mänwe's making things worse, not A) ignoring it so we can move on and try to hunt wolves or B) trying to resolve the fight so we can move on and try to hunt wolves.

A good pick– he also doesn't appear to be C) actually trying to work out whether either of them is, in fact, a baddie (and in fact voted for Greenie) but then you, Lottie, seem to be assuming the innocence of both parties, which is rather worrying in its turn.

EDIT:X'd with tp.

[Anguirel]

Dead right Nerwen - while Fea was right to bring up the compromise between catching wolves and creating useful spirits, to vote primarily with the latter aim in mind - as I think she, among others, has done - seems to fall too far on the wrong side of that compromise.

You happen to be the object of Fea's privileging of ghost above gaur, but that is for the moment irrelevant; the larger point being that of the reasoning she presented for voting for you, none of it was anti-wolf rather than pro-ghost.

On the other hand I don't yet suspect Fea herself. The fact is that the exciting thing going on is the contribution of the dead, so it's a natural step to concentrate on the Dead rather than the Living because of their novelty. It's easy to forget that our real aim is still exterminating the wolves. For large parts of today, indeed, I have.

At least the case against Nogrod is one built on genuine, if very slight, suspicion. I'd rather vote for Manwe, but I don't think yet another candidate at this point - a relatively taciturn one too - is necessarily helpful...

[Anguirel]

I didn't realise Manwe already had a vote, that invalidates one of my objects to persecuting him.

On the other hand, quite tempted to the vote in hot blood for the next chancer who dares call me a cobbler...

[Mithalwen]

Ah another hour, another list ergo another suspect...
Less than 24 hours in and I am not sitting right with someone "check"
flying under the radar "check"
Quite disappointed noone has cursed day ones...
But Fea loves me... and is squabbling with Ang. Joy... to be honest my voting this game may be skewed by the fear of "Huis Clos" situations in the next world. Hoping whne my time comes it will be more Apres Vie...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Dead right Nerwen - while Fea was right to bring up the compromise between catching wolves and creating useful spirits, to vote primarily with the latter aim in mind - as I think she, among others, has done - seems to fall too far on the wrong side of that compromise.

You happen to be the object of Fea's privileging of ghost above gaur, but that is for the moment irrelevant; the larger point being that of the reasoning she presented for voting for you, none of it was anti-wolf rather than pro-ghost.

I was actually talking about Nessa's vote on Legate, not Fea's on me– but the same thing applies.

EDIT:X'd since Il Fenriso Lupo at #156.

[Glirdan]

I wouldn't usually double post, but seeing as it has gone dead....

The voting count stands thus:

Lommy ++ Manwe
Legate++Nessa
Greenie++Lommy
Shasta++Nog
Agan++Nog(2)
Nog++Shasta
Manwe++Greenie
Elron++Nog(3)

With these people remaining to vote

Glirdan
Nerwen
Loslote
Wilwa
Legate
Nessa
Blind Guardian
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel
Fea

Out of these, BG and Wilwa have been no shows (no I have not heard from my darling butterfly so don't ask)

Now if I HAD to do a suspicions list (which it seems like I do seeing as no one is around to make conversation with ) it would be as this

Inclined to Trust
Phantom - As much as it KILLS me to not want to vote him and see him join the mob of Fenrises, he has made far too much sense and his ideas and thoughts to bold to be a phantywolf.....although, it is phantom and this could be exactly what a phantywolf would want. Either way, I'm more inlcined to trust him and keep him around.
Shasta - After that, albeit, overreaction to Noggy, I'm more inclined to trust him (please read my post #134 for the full explanation
Fea - Even in her very few posts, Fea has made what has to be the most sense out of everyone that I have seen post today
Agan - She's been here for the better part of the Day, making very good contributions and talking perfect sense in my opinion

Leery of
Lommy - see my last post
Ang - There was something in his earlier posts that have just made me feel uneasy about him. I don't entirely suspect Wolf, but Cobbler is definitely coming to mind when I read his posts
Boro - All day, his attack (okay, maybe that's a little too strong of a word...his, thoughts and ideas will suffice for this) on [/b]Nog[/b] just made no sense to me. Granted, Nog has me a little baffled, but that's not unusual. But Boro's has been pretty adamant about it....I don't know, something just feels off.
Mith - Most of her posts have been nothing but banters and that bugs me. Something about it is just not sitting right.


Unsure
[b]Nerwen/b] - Her first few posts of the day were all banter, then she disappeared for the better portion. No idea what to make here.
Noggins - This is nothing new for me...he always has me confused and by midday on Day 2, we'll be knocking heads
Greenie - I haven't seen enough of her to say anything really.
Legate - I actually just remembered he was playing....oh wow.....bed time.....
Lottie - I really just have no idea about her...

??????????????
Manwe
Nessa
Elron
The three above have posted like three to five times each, most of which was banter, some of which had little to no substance in their posts and have been absent for the better part of the day.
Sally - Hasn't posted much....BUT did inform us she may not be able to and that she may not be voting.

No Show
Wilwa
BG


I won't vote for the no shows. For one, I'm sure miss butterfly has a perfectly good explanation for not being here, for another I will give them the one day grace period. I will not vote for [b]Sally[b] as she has explained herself quite well. I will not vote for any of those under the Inclined to Trust list as I want to keep them around.

Seeing as I want to hear more from Manwe, Elron and Nessa, I will also give them a one day grace period.

Which leaves everyone else.....Okay, will be back to vote shortly.


EDIT: Xed since last (turns out I didn't double post )

[elronds_daughter]

Originally Posted by Fea

So don't be surprised if I vote for somebody that seems active and rational: it's not that I want to kill awesome good guys, it's that I want to ascertain that the purpose of the Dead Thread isn't mucked up via us staffing its walls with mutes.

This is the way my brain is working too... The train of thought goes: "Okay, we want to kill the baddies. But we also don't want to make malicious ghosts. Crap."

This tension between Nogrod and Shasta worries me somewhat. Hrmmm.

[elronds_daughter]

Right. Must go. Voting.

++Nogrod

Partly because Shasta's overreaction makes him seem innocent. And if Nog's not guilty, then he'll be a helpful ghost.

[Anguirel]

As in, they're Hamlet and Laertes, Balin and Balan, Turin and Beleg (hasn't happened yet, but there is acute foresight amid the kin of Feanor, whatevs)? Yeah, I agree, for now. While it is irksome that they're becoming the lead candidates, the price of caution is standing by to watch the stoning of the more conspicuous...

Manwe is surprisingly acerbic though that may be a stylistic thing. elronds_daughter - I'd be more comfortable calling her Celebrian, but then again maybe Elrond (as yet unborn) had another sprog - makes a very sensible point about the compromises entailed in our lynching. Basically, within our category of suspects, we should go for the most vocal one. There's more to gain from a punt on the phantoms of this world than a pure shot in the dark; though killing a vocal player is admittedly disastrous if they're...shoe fetishists

addendum: crossed 'Celebrian', Nessa, Nogrod