Radagast's ultimate fate

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I seem to remember another recent thread that touched on this, but a quick search yielded negative results.

I suppose you mean this one.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Gandalf says repeatedly that the Third Age was "his" age, and that he was the "enemy of Sauron". Since the Istari were all in the same boat, so to speak, as far as their ultimate purpose for being in Middle-earth, I would think that none of them had any business remaining behind after Sauron's fall. Staying in in the mortal lands was dangerous, for themselves and ME's less powerful denizens. There would, I think, be too much of a tendency to abuse their powers, especially after Gandalf's leaving.
I rather think Radagast, and the Blues Brothers as well were ultimately "depowered" and their bodies (which were mortal) taken away from them by their superiors. The alternative, leaving such uniquely powerful beings to their own devices after their "official" assignment was over, would seem to be a needless risk.

Hm, I don't know, that seems a somewhat drastic measure to me. Maybe for Jake and Elwood, in the version of their story where they became corrupted and started secret magic cults rather than working against Sauron from within his territory in the South and East - but even then, I guess the Valar could have left it to Men to deal with them somehow; after all Sauron himself had been overcome mainly by mortals (with a little help from Gandalf and the Elves, and maybe one or two nudges of divine providence), and I don't think either of them were in Sauron's class.

As for Radagast, I could imagine that since he had forgotten about his original mission, as you say, the Valar decided to forget about him in turn and leave him where he was, if he was content to remain there. I don't see him becoming much of a danger to anybody - I mean, he hadn't been taking enough interest in the affairs of Men to interfere with them for a long time, and that wasn't likely to change significantly in the foreseeable future, rather the contrary (except maybe if they threatened his beloved animals). morm expressed it very well in that other thread I linked to:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Radagast, in my opinion, would become more mortal like in his apathy, he wouldn't cross the ocean to Valinor as he is dwindling and dimishing in his knowledge and prior greatness. I think he would remain in Middle-earth a mere shadow of what he became continually tending to his micro-environment without concerning himself with the goings on of the world around him. He wouldn't die but wouldn't grow.

Who knows, maybe he ended up as the archetype of all the spirits of the wood that haunt European folk mythology, something remotely like our German Rübezahl or I don't know what would be the English equivalent - a guardian of nature, generally benign but with a bit of a trickster personality and a nasty temper if you cut down trees or shoot deer too deep in the forest.


EDIT: x-ed with Form, who seems to be thinking in a similar direction in the last paragraph.

[Boromir88]

I'm going to have to go digging through the sources, but I think there are clear differences between Gandalf's success in the Istari mission, and the others' failures.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the 3 unknowns (Radagast, Alatar and Pallando) failed in the manner that Saruman did. None of them failed like Saruman who actually accepted Sauron's (his supposed Enemy) goals as the right path. Then again, did the 3 unknowns succeed in the way that Gandalf did? No. Still, I would separated their failing from Saruman's failing.

There are very late writings, which were unfinished and you can take from them what you wish. Like I said, I'll try to dig them up. Basically, in some very late writings Tolkien said that the Blue Wizards were vital in the resistance against Sauron in the East. They were sent in almost a special mission to go East and keep down the numbers of Men who would join Sauron's army. And they were indeed successful in this, and without the Blue Wizards efforts in the East, the armies of Gondor, Rohan, and the "resistance" led by Gandalf would have failed as Sauron's armies would have swelled and straight out over-whelmed them.

There are also some less than kind writings about Radagast, who basically became lazy. He was a "good" person, by aiding Gandalf a few times, but with regards to his mission became lazy. And in truth, Gandalf actually knew more about birds and nature than Radagast, which was supposed to be Radagast's "specialty."

[Man-of-the-Wold]

I've always felt that Saruman would have had him eliminated

[Alcuin]

The purpose of the Istari was (UT, “The Istari”)

to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavor to dominate and corrupt.

…the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) [the Istari] yearned exceedingly. …

…Radagast …. became enamored of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name … “tender of beasts”…

It wasn’t that Radagast was evil or malicious. Gandalf called him “the honest Radagast” in the Council of Elrond, and reiterated his trust in his integrity, pointing out that it was because of Radagast that Gwaihir the Windlord came to Orthanc, found Gandalf Saruman’s captive, and rescued him. Gandalf successfully used Radagast as a reference in his initial encounter with Beorn.

Radagast simply lost focus on his mission. He was sent to Middle-earth by Yavanna because Aulë sent Saruman. (This part of the legendarium smacks of the kind of jealousy seen in Greek myth between Zeus and Hera, for instance.)

I think that means that Radagast must have remained in Middle-earth until well into the Fourth Age. I don’t believe he still yearned exceedingly for the Blessed Realm, and being a Maia, he would not die of natural causes. The Men of the Vales of Anduin should have had some recourse to him for that time, as well as the Kings of Gondor and Rohan, if they thought to seek him out. Because of his relationship to Yavanna, one wonders why he was not an obvious ally of Treebeard and the Ents; but perhaps he was, and Tolkien did not inform us of it, or else it is not published. (There is a hint in Treebeard’s conversation with Merry and Pippin that he know might know more wizards than just Gandalf and Saruman, so it is quite possible that he knew Radagast, too.)

I think I met Radagast many years ago in Berkley, California. He was running a Ben & Jerry’s, wore Birkenstocks, had a staff, and was followed around by a couple of deer and lots of birds and furry critters.

[Rumil]

I wonder, should he have decided/been allowed to stay in Middle Earth, if he joined or helped Celeborn's new elvish realm of the Greenwood in the Fourth Age?

I imagine that Dol Guldur and the environs needed 'cleaning up' after Sauron's defeat, perhaps R aided in some way. Rhosgobel was just by the eaves of Mirkwood so at least technically Radagast might come under the area that Celeborn ruled.

I'd like to think that Radagast was forgiven for his failings, for he had never turned to evil per se, unlike Saruman. Maybe he elected to stay in ME, eventually becoming a Bombadil-ish anomaly, or hitched a lift with Gimli and Legolas on the last ship?

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Radagast simply lost focus on his mission. He was sent to Middle-earth by Yavanna because Aulë sent Saruman. (This part of the legendarium smacks of the kind of jealousy seen in Greek myth between Zeus and Hera, for instance.)]

Actually that brings up a interesting point. It suddenly occurs to me that another reason R. might wish to stay was on the possibility that the blue wizards were still alive (as Saruman, and R. himself demonstrate in the case of wizards "failed in mission" does not automatically translate to "dead") and he had to stay as a counterbalnce. Alatar and Pallando were after all, sent by Orome and so might be a little too fond of hunting (all of the other Istari seem to show proclivites remiscent of the Valar that chose them, so the blues presumably do as well). Maybe dawn of the forth age Radagast was a little worried that, shoud Alatar and Pallando return from the East (If their role truly had been to forment resistance against Sauron in the East, with Sauron gone, they might have wandered more freely) and that ME needed him around to play Lorax.



I think I met Radagast many years ago in Berkley, California. He was running a Ben & Jerry’s, wore Birkenstocks, had a staff, and was followed around by a couple of deer and lots of birds and furry critters.

[/QUOTE]

It may be, though personally Ive always though of Radagast as looking quite a bit younger (the Ishtari were only supposed to age through the rigors of their labors. Since R. seems to have gone native pretty quicky, and his native live seems (at least until the very end), largely stress free, I imagine he aged less than Gandalf or Saruman. I tend to think of him has having Gandalf's build more or less, tall and slender but with hair and bear that are still largely brown (The image I keep getting is basically somwhere between Ron Moody's Fagin in a pointy hat and Kirby's version of Rincewing plus ten years)

As for Saruman possibly planning to eliminate R. had he come to power, I think this is almost certain. To me, at least the litany Saruman accused Gandalf of wanting were things that Saruman himself desired; had he suceeded in his desires he no doubt would have wished to take Barad-Dur's keys (along with Barad-Dur itself likey) and the crowns of kings. Taking all of the wizards rods, making himself the one and only wizard; holder of all power, would likey sit high on his list. He did desire all five staffs, in fact (If you belive some of the possible fragments about what happened to the blue wizards) he may have already had three of them, as he technically already had one crown, Isildur's original one (mentioned at the end of "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" in the UT)

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

I think I met Radagast many years ago in Berkley, California. He was running a Ben & Jerry’s, wore Birkenstocks, had a staff, and was followed around by a couple of deer and lots of birds and furry critters.

Ah, I needed a good laugh!

My personal opinion has always been that Radagast, in focusing too strongly on the flora and fauna of Middle-earth that he so loved, lost sight of his mission to aid and guide the people in the resistance against Sauron, and just plain forgot who and what he truly was, and where he came from. Not evil or malicious in his failing, but failed nonetheless. I believe he remained in Middle-earth either until something happened to kill his human body, or until he finally did something that jogged his memory.

Somewhat facetiously — but not entirely — I once postulated that Radagast was Merlin, who, after helping put Arthur on the right path, was "lured" away by "Nimue," another Maia who was sent to finally bring him home, having at last fulfilled his original mission to help the beleaguered residents of Middle-earth (another member of the board on which I first postulated this was kind enough to write a charming little piece of fan fiction about the event). In an odd way, it makes sense, partly because of the ambiguity about Merlin's origins and fate in the many variations of the Arthur legend, and partly because it would place a small connection between Tolkien's invented British mythology and Britain's most prominent legend.

[Pitchwife]

Radagast as Merlin? That's not such a weird idea at all - especially if you consider the original Merlin we meet in the Black Book of Carmarthen, Myrddin Wyllt, the mad hermit of the Caledonian woods who addressed his prophecies to pigs and apple-trees and appeared at his ex-wife's second wedding riding on a stag. Quite a Radagastly figure.

[Rumil]

And did he turn up later as St Francis of Assisi?

Hmm, who's he now then- David Attenborough?