The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


View Poll Results: Who, in the Lord of the Rings, was the most effective liar?
Boromir 0 0%
Denethor 1 1.92%
Gollum 2 3.85%
Saruman 14 26.92%
Sauron 22 42.31%
Wormtongue 13 25.00%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 11-24-2010, 04:34 PM   #24
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim View Post
Sauron could easily have swayed the Eastern and Southern men to fight for him without lying. Military glory, security from Mordor, crusade against the Western and Northern men; lies were not necessary.
Just for the record, I must react to this - I would side with Prince of Halflings, who has brought up a very good point, I think. There is no indication that the men of the East and South would have been any different in this aspect from the Westerners. They were just more prone to being deceived by Sauron, being sort of further from the light, so to say. Intimidating connected with bribery, yes, as part of any political agreements of such kind, I am sure Sauron tried this on everybody everywhere. But lies were for certain a part of it as well. One big lie itself is if you manage to deceive people into believing that you (as Sauron) are capable of standing against the powers of the West, which, secretly or not, still work in the world in some way. But I am sure the audiences of foreign lords were overflowing with promises of glory, immortality and all this stuff, just like in the good ol' days when the Nazgul were corrupted, mostly from the very same Men. I think the mastery of Sauron's deception was in the fact that the people he was talking to surely knew inside of their hearts that he was lying to them and that the promises he gives are not what they seem, and that they don't lead to immortality (real or metaphorical) and glory, but to death and oblivion. But the people still listened to him and in the end joined him. Isn't that a mastery of deception non plus ultra?

Although I have to join the chorus of those saying that the moments when Sauron's "art" of lie really seems like an "art" are mostly the First/Second Era ones. The episode with Gorlim is definitely the top for me. Sauron (and even more the "proto-Sauron", like his earlier "versions" in the Lay of Leithian) seems to me to be the liar, although of course taking nothing from Morgoth, of whom he was technically a mere servant, so "cosmologically" it is pretty certain that Morgoth was "the" liar; but sort of from the literary perspective, it seems to me that with Sauron, it is somehow more emphasised (and also if the question is only about LotR, then Morgoth is anyway out of question).
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.