Istari and their staves

[Rumil]

I'd reckon that the staff was a conduit for the wizards' power, and a badge of office as well.

Gandalf seems to have brought down the Bridge at Khazad-Dum by breaking his staff upon it - perhaps a conduit for Gandalf's power, perhaps using some 'energy' stored within the staff - its difficult to tell. As well as hewing the Balrog with Glamdring it seems clear that there was serious spell-casting in the Battle of the Peak, so Gandalf could still do magic without the staff. Maybe Gandalf's death was even caused by utter magical exhaustion rather than physical wounds, and maube he would have fared better with his staff - speculation though!

As far as I remember the staves were issued in Valinor, so are likely pretty special!

Oh, and remember the to-do about Gandalf's staff at Edoras, though the assumption that Wizards required the staff appears wrong.

[Ghanberryghan]

Originally Posted by Rumil

I'd reckon that the staff was a conduit for the wizards' power, and a badge of office as well.

Gandalf seems to have brought down the Bridge at Khazad-Dum by breaking his staff upon it - perhaps a conduit for Gandalf's power, perhaps using some 'energy' stored within the staff - its difficult to tell. As well as hewing the Balrog with Glamdring it seems clear that there was serious spell-casting in the Battle of the Peak, so Gandalf could still do magic without the staff. Maybe Gandalf's death was even caused by utter magical exhaustion rather than physical wounds, and maube he would have fared better with his staff - speculation though!

As far as I remember the staves were issued in Valinor, so are likely pretty special!

Oh, and remember the to-do about Gandalf's staff at Edoras, though the assumption that Wizards required the staff appears wrong.

Yea I was thinking of it kind of like that, like a Wizard might also have far more abilities when he physically holds his staff, but he's not completely powerless without it, just weakened. Like if Saruman could resist the Nazgul without his staff it shows he's not powerless, but the fuss in Edoras shows that it must somehow enhance their power.

[Galadriel55]

Moreover, Gandalf points his staff at the things he wants to set on fire.
And where did he get a new staff from after he broke his on the bridge of Moria?

I think that the magic that anyone does comes from the willpower of that person. Incantations and staffs are probably just used to help direct the power to the correct action. However, people with inner power don't need staffs. If you define magician, you'd get someone with supernatural abilities. Galadriel does "magic" when she works her mirror. And she says that she can make the nirror show whatever she wants with her will. Aragorn enables the Grey Company to make the trip from the Path of the Dead through entire Gondor without much rest with his will, as is noted on a few occasions.
This would mean that wizards will still have their power if their staffs are broken, but it would be harder for the to release it to specific things.

By the way, I like the analogy with the policemen.

[Ghanberryghan]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Moreover, Gandalf points his staff at the things he wants to set on fire.
And where did he get a new staff from after he broke his on the bridge of Moria?

I think that the magic that anyone does comes from the willpower of that person. Incantations and staffs are probably just used to help direct the power to the correct action. However, people with inner power don't need staffs. If you define magician, you'd get someone with supernatural abilities. Galadriel does "magic" when she works her mirror. And she says that she can make the nirror show whatever she wants with her will. Aragorn enables the Grey Company to make the trip from the Path of the Dead through entire Gondor without much rest with his will, as is noted on a few occasions.
This would mean that wizards will still have their power if their staffs are broken, but it would be harder for the to release it to specific things.

By the way, I like the analogy with the policemen.

Oh thank you!
But yea I was always under the impression that if the staffs were needed for any reason, then them being broken would mean that they were unable to do certain things IE No longer able to shoot fireballs, but stall able to use words of command.

[Galadriel55]

So maybe the staffs are used to direct the power? To release it only on certain things/actions?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The wizards have the bodies of old men; the staffs are to help them walk, and to lean on.

[Bêthberry]

Given the general attitude towards power (and authority) which LotR explores, I'm constantly bemused at how often questions of power come up in Middle-earth discussions. Must be some kind of magical after-effect of all that gaming.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Moreover, Gandalf points his staff at the things he wants to set on fire.
And where did he get a new staff from after he broke his on the bridge of Moria?

After Gandalf is sent back, Gwaihir takes him to Lorien, where Galadriel gives him newly washed white robes and I'd imagine where he also got a new staff

With the power of the wizards' staves I've always thought Hama made an interesting comment:

"The staff in the hand of a wizard may be more than a prop for age," said Hama. He looked hard at the ash-staff on which Gandalf leaned.~The King of the Golden Hall

It is an ordinary (at least looks ordinary) wooden staff, but Hama adds an interesting point, "in the hand of a wizard." There is no power in a staff, other than being used as a prop, but in the hand of a wizard, they can be used as ways to focus their power. Like how Gandalf uses his staff to break the bridge of Khazad-dum.

At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke asunder and fell from his hand. A blinding sheet of white flame sprang up. The bridge cracked. Right at the Balrog's feet it broke,...~The Bridge of Khazad-dum

Handy tool to break and smite things. Surely Gandalf wouldn't want to power-punch the bridge.

[Alcuin]

If a wizard’s staff from Aman was a reminder that he also came from Aman, then Gandalf’s breaking Saruman’s staff suddenly makes sense: his connection to home was broken. He’d been offered a chance to repent and be redeemed, but he refused. Saruman himself broke his real connection to Valinor; Gandalf’s breaking his staff only made him aware of what he had done. That would explain how Saruman might still trap a Nazgûl at Orthanc, how he could cozen Treebeard despite all he’d done to the ents and the fact that Treebeard actually understood his purposes, but without that connection back to Valinor, he was increasingly unfocused. When Gandalf’s body was killed, his spirit wandered but remained intact; when Saruman’s body was killed, his spirit was dissipated.

It also throws light on how Radagast failed in his mission. Radagast never became evil: Gandalf calls him “the honest Radagast”, and it was through Radagast’s interventions that Gwaihir rescued Gandalf from Orthanc. But Radagast “became enamored of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men”. (Unfinished Tales, “Istari”) Gandalf’s description at the Council of Elrond of his meeting with him portrays Radagast as frightened and unfocused, as if he had forgotten his connection to Valinor and so lost his connection to his mission in Middle-earth.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ghanberryghan

But yes, just like instruments, you could pretend there were three musicians, one who plays guitar, one who plays violin and one who plays clarinet. To show that they were musicians they each carry a music stand. See the similarities? They can use their stands to help them play music (help them cast spells) but without a stand a musician might be able to play what he remembers on his own instrument without the use of a stand (Guitarist remembers songs which he can play without a music stand) which could be like Saruman using the power of his voice which he had.

Nice analogy, I like it. Besides, I just love this little imaginary dialogue:
"So why did the Istari carry staves?" - "Because music stands would've been to cumbersome."

Originally Posted by Boro

It is an ordinary (at least looks ordinary) wooden staff, but Hama adds an interesting point, "in the hand of a wizard." There is no power in a staff, other than being used as a prop, but in the hand of a wizard, they can be used as ways to focus their power. Like how Gandalf uses his staff to break the bridge of Khazad-dum.

This is a good point, I think. Like an instrument (or a music stand) doesn't have any power in the hands of somebody who can't play, but in hands of a virtuoso, wow!

[Ghanberryghan]

Hmmm it does make sense having the staff also serve as a focus or connection between the wizard and Valinor. That would explain why Saruman didn't seem very different without his staff than he was with it, and why Gandalf never lost any power when his was destroyed in Moria.
I always have wondered how exactly Saruman would use his power against the Nazgul in Orthanc though. Could it mean that the tower itself could serve as a focus, much like his staff? Orthanc was built by the numenoreans so it would make sense if it gave Saruman a connection to Valinor.